Re-Raising Pre-flop with Small/Medium Pairs

[The Dude]

Live NL game, $100 buy-in. Blinds $2-$3

The opponent in question has $350, I have about $600. He is one of only 3 at the table who have any clue how to play at all. He plays fairly decent, maybe a bit too aggressive, though. His stacked has been cut in half during the last orbit, so he might be on tilt.

Folded to late position, who limps. I am on button with AQo. I raise to $10, BB makes it $50 to go. I have witnessed him make this move w/ small and medium pocket pairs all night. Usually the field folds, then he shows me his cards (let this post be a lesson why to NEVER show your cards without purpose).

LP limper folds, I immediately raise to $200. $100 in the pot, he thinks about calling my $150 raise. After a minute, he pushes in for $100 more. I was really hoping he'd fold. I call. He turns over 88.

An A comes on the flop, and I take down the pot. I feel good about my read and subsequent raise. I think a decent opponent folds here quite often enough.

Here's my main question. How bad is his call? I know he's a slight favorite heads up, but that's only if he can be sure I don't have a pocket pair. I follow the golden rule of never get involved when you are either a small favorite or a big dog . I'm almost sure I fold here. I think you have to be really confident in your overcards read to make this call correct.

Comments?

[SpaceAce]

I think the real problem is that he's all-in as the favorite pre-flop. That doesn't leave you any chance to outplay him. You're getting what amounts to 1:1 as a dog and that's not a good thing. I would have only made that big a raise if I were pretty sure he'd fold his pair. If he doesn't fold, you wind up in the situation described in your post with more than 1/2 your stack in against an all-in player in a situation where you are going to lose more often than you win.

SpaceAce

[The Dude]

I was only a 1.2/1 dog heads up, which means he only has to fold 38% of the time for this to be a +EV move. Looking back, I have no doubt this is a +EV move. The real question is, is it a more +EV move than just calling.

Are the times when I wait to see if I hit the flop worth giving him a free chance to hit a set? I would wager not, but I'm open to comments.

Here's the other thing I just don't like about calling pre-flop. I definately re-raise every time with a big pocket pair, so unless I do this occaisionally with just high cards or medium pairs I will never get called when I do have it big. If I'm going to make advertising plays, why not do it in this situation?

[The Dude]

I suppose there's another element to consider. How much does losing half my stack impair my ability to extract maximum EV from the fish at the table? If losing a coin flip means I miss out on good bets in the future, that does give more weight to the 'do not re-raise' argument.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

This hand shows why you shouldn't make big raises with questionable pairs. He was either a small favorite or a big dog. Unless he had AK or QQ-AA, you would be at worst a small dog here, but certainly getting good enough pot odds to go for it on your play. You had good reason to believe he would have a fairly crappy hand, so good play.

al

[crockpot]

first of all, if you wanted to put pressure on him to fold, the move is to push all-in now given that he only has $100 after you raise to $200. you will be pot-committed to call a reraise anyway. the only reason to raise $200 instead of $300 is to encourage a call if you read him for a hand like a worse ace.

that said, i really don't like his play, but the "a pair is a favorite over overcards" mentality encourages a lot of poor players to screw up with small pocket pairs, so i'm not going to complain. his original reraise is basically going nowhere unless he thinks you're a) on a complete steal or b) respect his reraise enough to fold a good hand here. and the all-in is a bad, bad play unless he had a great read on you.

[tewall]

You're right in that it must be a +EV move, but it's going to be a very small +EV move, because folding by him is a very small, almost microscopic, mistake. So calling, assuming you can outplay him post-flop, must be better. It may be significantly better if you can outplay him by a lot.

[tewall]

"This hand shows why you shouldn't make big raises with questionable pairs. He was either a small favorite or a big dog."

It's true that this can lead to a small favorite/big dog scenario, but his raising, given the circumstances as describe, was fine.

Here are the reasons rasining is good:

1) "Usually the field folds". Since the field usually folds, he's usually making money on his raise.
2) By cutting down the field, he improves his chance of winning the pot later on. Often the flop will miss his opponent, and another bet by him will take it down.
3) If he hits his set, he has a much better chance of getting paid off, as a pre-flop raiser is not likely going to be read for something like 88.
4) He sets himself up for his big pair hands. If it is known that 88 will be raised, he's likely to get paid off big when he has a big pair.

If the likelihood that he will be re-raised is small, then this play has much upside, at little risk.

That being said, calling the pre-flop re-raise is horrible, for the big dog/small favorite reason you gave.

[The Dude]

Tewall,

I agree that his initial raise here isn't a bad one. In fact, until this hand he had won quite a bit of money with it. But his hand is such that I think you have to lay it down when a player comes back over the top like I did.

[ QUOTE ]
the only reason to raise $200 instead of $300 is to encourage a call if you read him for a hand like a worse ace

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason I didn't is that I tried to play consistant with the way I would have played a big pocket pair. If I did have KK or AA, I most certainly would not have re-raised all-in, and this player was sophisticated enough to know that. (This might have been the wrong time for the all-in move since I think he was on tilt a bit.)

[Redhotman]

[ QUOTE ]
Live NL game, $100 buy-in. Blinds $2-$3

The opponent in question has $350, I have about $600. He is one of only 3 at the table who have any clue how to play at all. He plays fairly decent, maybe a bit too aggressive, though. His stacked has been cut in half during the last orbit, so he might be on tilt.

Folded to late position, who limps. I am on button with AQo. I raise to $10, BB makes it $50 to go. I have witnessed him make this move w/ small and medium pocket pairs all night. Usually the field folds, then he shows me his cards (let this post be a lesson why to NEVER show your cards without purpose).

LP limper folds, I immediately raise to $200. $100 in the pot, he thinks about calling my $150 raise. After a minute, he pushes in for $100 more. I was really hoping he'd fold. I call. He turns over 88.

An A comes on the flop, and I take down the pot. I feel good about my read and subsequent raise. I think a decent opponent folds here quite often enough.

Here's my main question. How bad is his call? I know he's a slight favorite heads up, but that's only if he can be sure I don't have a pocket pair. I follow the golden rule of never get involved when you are either a small favorite or a big dog . I'm almost sure I fold here. I think you have to be really confident in your overcards read to make this call correct.

Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]
I really wish I could sit at your table..If you two are teh best of the table it has to be a gold-mine..