Stud structure question

[Henke]

I'm thinking about introducing stud in a low-limit homegame. We're currently mostly playing hold'em and single-table tourneys.

However, hold'em structure seem to be more standardized than stud. I haven't seen a casino (online or offline) that doesn't use the half/big-blind structure. However, online, I've seen stud-tables with everything from no ante (only bring-in) to an ante that's quite large. What structure would you suggest? Would the "bring-in only" change the game alot? Or is it better to introduce a lower denomination chip and use an ante about 10% of the small-bet?

[CJC]

Hi,

Give me the limits you usually play at your other games and I can make some recommendations for you. My only recommendation is don't use a sructure that makes it a 'crapshoot'

CJ

[7stud]

Would the "bring-in only" change the game alot?

It depends on your group. A smart player would play tighter since it wouldn't cost him anything to see the first three cards. Actually, he has a small cost: getting hit with the bring in on average 1 out of 8 hands dealt.

The higher the ante relative to the average future bets, the more aggression it encourages because you'll go broke if you wait for premium starting hands, so you have to get in the hand and try to win the antes with lesser cards.

The typical $15-$30 stud game has an ante of $2 and a bring in of $5, which I think is a pretty good structure. An ante that is somewhat higher than 10% of the small bet is about right. So, if you want to play $2-$4 stud make the ante .25-.30, and if you don't like the hassle of trying to get everyone's antes in the pot before every hand, make the dealer put in everyone's ante, say $2 if the ante is .25.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I'd pick and choose from the structures you see online, which vary quite a bit. If you're going with 3-6 stakes, do the 50c ante, $1 bring in. that'll keep your home game in the action. For 2-4, 25c or 50c ante (depends on your preference, online it's 25c), with a 50c or $1 bring in, again, your choice, (online it's a buck). First raise always completes the full bet, then the second raise is another full bet.

I strongly suggest you do NOT play 1-5 with a $1 bring in. Lousy game, IMO, no action. Perhaps the newest trend of 50c ante, $2 bring in, 2-5 spread limit would be best for your home game action.

Either way you gotta keep the ante high in home games to keep the action fast and furious.

al

[Henke]

[ QUOTE ]
So, if you want to play $2-$4 stud make the ante .25-.30, and if you don't like the hassle of trying to get everyone's antes in the pot before every hand, make the dealer put in everyone's ante, say $2 if the ante is .25.

[/ QUOTE ]
I like that idea! Gets rid of the smaller chips too.. Thanks!

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Early rounds in live tournaments are often played with a dealer ante. It works just fine.

al

[Andy B]

In my opinion, the ideal structure for stud is that used at $30/60, which has a $5 ante and a $10 bring-in. You should probaby use the same limits that you use for hold'em, so you may have to do some rounding. If you play $2/4, I recommend either a $.25 or a $.50 ante with a $.50 or $.75 bring-in. I'd use $.50 and $.50 myself. $2/4 and $4/8 games at Canterbury and on-line use a half-bet bring-in, and I don't think that's a good idea. There should be some chance that someone will call the bring-in but then fold to a completion. That should never happen if the bring-in is $2 in a $4/8 game (although I have seen bad players make this fold). Some common structures:

$2/4 with a $.50 ante and a $1 bring-in (I think the force should be $.50)
$3/6 with a $.50 ante and a $1 bring-in
$4/8 with a $.50 ante and a $2 bring-in (I think the force should be $1)
$5/10 with a $.50 ante and a $2 bring-in
$6/12 with a $1 ante and a $2 bring-in
$10/20 with a $1 ante and $3 bring-in
$15/30 with a $2 ante and a $5 bring-in
$20/40 with a $3 ante and a $5 bring-in
$30/60 with a $5 ante and a $10 bring-in
$40/80 with a $5 ante and a $10 bring-in (one of the big rooms in Vegas uses a $10 ante, which I think would make for a much better game)
$75/150 with a $15 ante and a $25 bring-in (wheeeee)
$100/200 with a $25 ante and a $25 bring-in

Whatever limit you use (you might have included this in your post), it should mirror one of these as closely as possible. Let us know what you come up with.

I like having the dealer ante for everybody in a home game as well, especially if everybody is basically being dealt in every hand.

[Dynasty]

I've played stud with Clarkmeister, Tommy Angelo, and some other 2+2ers in my home game and we just ended up using a hold 'em-like blind structure. It worked great.

[Wombat6]

What is it that you want to accomplish ?

adding a fun game where no one goes broke?

adding a game where good players have a marked advantage over bad players in a mid term?

a game with some swings but no one really gets hurt?

what is the basic texture of you game? do you want the stud structure to augment this texture ? change it ?
make it faster , slower , keep it the same?

is it often short handed ?

is it raked? and how much

do you participate in the game or collection?

over all I would suggest a structure in which the combination of the forced action (anties plus bring in) is no more than 65% of the large bet or no less than 50%

this will result in a semi tight game where some stealing and drawing would be correct. yet a tight player wouldnt get squeezed to death and a loose player could provide some profit for the better players while still maintaining the sames need for action.

of course if the limit is medium to high by casino standards a bigger precentage has certain advantages

I would be happy to give you some more ideas if you would answer some of the questions I've posed

wombat6

[Wombat6]

Andy B wrote:

That should never happen if the bring-in is $2 in a $4/8 game (although I have seen bad players make this fold). Some common structures:

have you ever seen good players make it ?

wombat6