To Settle and Argument...

[DjSkyy]

Recently i was playing in a daytime 5/10 hold'em game on ub and was dealt KK on the button. A somewhat loose-agg and sometimes tricky player raises from EP, everyone folds to me, and i 3bet it. The blinds fold and the EP raiser calls.
The flop is A49 rainbow. The EP player bets into me. I know this is not a great situation, and later i asked my friend what is the smartest play here.
I insist that unless it is the tightest and most straightforeward of opponenets, a raise is on order, and if he just calls and checks on the turn, to bet the turn as well regardless of what falls. If 3bet on the flop or check raised on the turn, i'm done with it, and if he calls me on the turn, just check it down on the river unless i improve.
My pal argues that you should simply fold on the flop when bet into in this situation, but i feel that's too tight considering there are 8.5 small bets in the pot at this point (including his flop bet), and this is a good spot for a bluff on his part considering his pot odds and the ace that fell.
one more small question, if i followed my own advice and he just called me on the turn, then all of a sudden led into me on the river, should i call him there? i would think so, but i'd like to hear what you guys think too.

Thanks

[DjSkyy]

(i meant if he checks and calls on the turn, sorry, gotta proofread better!)

[DeucesUp]

I think you've pretty much got the right idea. Yeah, more than likely you're beat but folding here with position against an opponent who has even the slightest trickery in this arsenal is a mistake. I'd almost be more worried if he checked the flop.

I think your suggested play is generally best. However, if this guy is really loose aggresive, this might be an opportune time for a little loose-passive play and just call it down all the way. If he missed or has a smaller PP, you may encourage a string of bluffs on every street. If he has AQ, AJ or AT he might check on the turn or river for fear you're slow playing AA or AK and you get to see the showdown for only 1.5 BB. Even if he bets every street you're getting about 3-1 to see the river. And lastly you would likely collect another bet or two if you hit one of your 2 outs.

[Kenshin]

Your friend plays far too weak tight ( a sin which I frequently commit). Unless you know with absolute certainity that your opponent holds an ace, I would play back at him here

[JayKon]

Well, if you catch you error quick enough, you could just edit the post. <edit>

[Depraved]

I think you're both wrong. You should call all the way if bet into.

If the EP has an ace or better, he's not gonna fold. Calling minimizes the loss you will take.

If the EP doesn't have an ace he will fold his hand, and you don't want the second best hand to stop betting with just two outs at most with a typical small pot. You would like him to keep betting into you with the second best hand.
However, if he will call you down with TT when you raise him on this board, go right ahead and raise him as much as possible. The typical opponent with TT is now betting into you to see if you will fold a better overpair, and will fold if you raise him assuming that you have something like AK.

So, by raising you will find out where you stand, but you will not make the most money.

[Yeknom58]

You might Call/Call/Call if you think he would bluff but fold to a raise.
You could also raise the flop and if he only calls and checks the turn, I might check behind hoping to induce a bluff on the river.
I think folding to one bet on the flop is a mistake againsts a loose AG type player.

[bernie]

id just call him down and let a worse hand bet. a raise could easily fold him if he has a lesser hand. if you raise the flop and are called, then you may have to check behind on the turn to induce a bluff on the river to save getting c/r. therefore, making 2BBs postflop instead of possible 2.5.

unless the player is known to really jam it a little with less. but what is he putting you on that youd be jamming/raising?

b

[JimRivett]

I feel that situations like this are very much player dependent. If in fact your opponent is "loose aggressive and sometimes tricky", I'd be inclined to raise his flop bet, if he calls and then checks to me on the turn I'd bet it again.

You have to call his river bet but don't be surprised to be shown 2 pair - 9 and whatever the river was.

Regards,
Jim

[Eric P]

Folding here should not be hard. It is much easier for him to have AQ AJs or AK o/s than it is for him to have QQ JJ or TT which are the most likely hands for him. He could possibly have 1/3 remaining AA hands that kill you, and leave you drawing dead. I think that the most obvoius play is actually not obvious and is player dependant. So here goes:

If he is capable of making plays: Call, if he leads the turn you actually probably have to fold, however you might consider raising the turn, if three bet you fold, if called you check behind on river or fold to a bet.

If he is straightforward and solid/tight: fold right away, it's not that big a deal, the one card you wanted not to fall fell, deal with it.

If he is a maniac/wild/loose: Folding might still be the best play here, there is simply better opportunities to get a lot of money in; that being said calling down can do a lot, if he is a maniac that plays decnet post-flop (the most common breed, if not decent then reasonable is a better word) then rasing on the flop and checking it down might be even better.

Anyway, to sum it up you are raising the flop or not raising at all at 5-10, unless you hit a K of course then you should raise when you hit it. Either way if you just fold on this flop you really don't give up much, as if he has JJ or QQ he is pretty likely to try and make this play (of representing the ace) when you have it. So don't forget to play it the same way you played your KK when you have the ace. I'm a bigger fan of calling down when you hit the ace though, so i would recommend a flop raise, or a call down with the kings, or when you hit an ace (if you choose not to fold, which could easily be the best play)