Checkraising hands

[Fistdantilus]

Party .5/1 $50 max buy in

Hand 1:

People in the hand
------------------
my stack is ~50: just got to the table: no reads
Opponent (LP) has ~28
Button has ~70

UTG I call A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
5 callers to the flop

Flop: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Checked to the button, who bets 4 into the $5 pot.
Folded to me, I c/r to 10
LP calls!
Button folds

Comments?

Hand 2:

A5o in BB
Button calls, SB completes.

We see a flop of 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Checked to the button, who bets 2 into the $3 pot.
-aside: button has a stack of 270, I have ~60. Button plays a ton of hands against the weaker players, pulling out spectacular wins and occasionally a few losses.

I c/r to 6.

Comments?

How the hands went (highlight to see):
<font color="white"> Hand 1: Turn was Kh, I check, he checks. River was a blank, I check, he bets all in 15 into the $30 pot. I call. He had KdXd and MHIG.

Hand 2: button thinks and folds.
</font>

Fistdantilus

[Guy McSucker]

If the button in each case here is a player who might try to pick up a pot when it's checked to him on the flop, then I like your check-raises, but the fact that you have "a little something" might actually hurt you here: you're essentially making a play at the pot, and if you get called, your not-quite-nothing hand might get you in trouble.

In the first case, though, it's great you've got the ace, because the LP player has a glaring, screaming flush draw.

Oooh, just checked the results, what a player I must be.

Guy.

[Fistdantilus]

[ QUOTE ]
If the button in each case here is a player who might try to pick up a pot when it's checked to him on the flop, then I like your check-raises

[/ QUOTE ]

That was actually the point of the post: how believable is the standard button bet? How much do you have to have to c/r him?

[ QUOTE ]
but the fact that you have "a little something" might actually hurt you here

[/ QUOTE ]

The more I play, the more tidbits of advice in TJ's NL book become clearer to me:

Paraphrase: If your pot-sized bet/raise gets called, you'd better shut down. The hand is over for you.

Fistdantilus

[WalleyeJason]

[ QUOTE ]
UTG I call A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
5 callers to the flop

Flop: 5 9 A

Checked to the button, who bets 4 into the $5 pot.
Folded to me, I c/r to 10
LP calls!
Button folds

Comments?


[/ QUOTE ]

I will fold Axs UTG everytime. But thats me.

I hope you were trying to steal the pot with your checkraise, because if your called, you dont have position, and your Ace is as weak as they get. Theres 5 callers, Im sure sombody had your A2 out kicked, If not 2 pair.


At Party NL$50, your throwing your money away. Weak Ace suited is hard to play after the flop when there are none of your suit on the board. FOLD


[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2:

A5o in BB
Button calls, SB completes.

We see a flop of 5 6 T

Checked to the button, who bets 2 into the $3 pot.
-aside: button has a stack of 270, I have ~60. Button plays a ton of hands against the weaker players, pulling out spectacular wins and occasionally a few losses.

I c/r to 6.

Comments?


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok again, Im thinking your trying to win the pot right there, Good aggresive play if they fold. But what if they dont? If they call, and no 5 comes on the turn, again your out of Position and most likley either going to loose alot of money or win very little.

Just my 2 cents

[Fistdantilus]

[ QUOTE ]
I hope you were trying to steal the pot with your checkraise, because if your called, you dont have position, and your Ace is as weak as they get. Theres 5 callers, Im sure sombody had your A2 out kicked, If not 2 pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are a few problems with your thinking.

1. It was checked to the button. Check-raising on party is EXTREMELY rare, thus my hand may be good.
2. The button almost always bets. Do you think he *always* has it? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
3. if they have A-big kicker or 2 pair, why didn't they bet?

The point is: it's almost a given that I'm up against the button who made a bet which could mean anything. The other caller made me worried, but my intention was to check-fold the turn.

Hand 2: the hand before, the button just lost a massive pot. The board was 996 two tone, and he CALLED a $100+ bet with AJo! All for a $10 pot! If i hit, implied odds are huge, but the main reason is that I very well *may* be ahead here.

Fistdantilus

[WalleyeJason]

I guess I'm just trying to say that he called your c/r, now how are you going to play it after the turn if you dont improve?

Your right, I have seen some wacky stuff in the NL50 games at Party.

[Fistdantilus]

I'm not even talking about wacky stuff at Party. The button bets a large % of the time when he gets checked to. How often does he have it, and what is his tolerance for pain?

Generally, if they call, I check-fold if they bet, or try to pick off some bluffs. This may work for me simply because I check all my hands when up front.

All I know is that the button bets nearly every time it's checked to him. I've been the button once every orbit, and I can tell you that I don't have it every time. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Fistdantilus

[1800GAMBLER]

Hi. I play Axs is most limit games UTG but less in NL, unless you are in a game with at least 3 seeing the turn.

These checkraises are plays i make as well but these cost me over the running bad period due to out of position and not many players folding to a raise after they have bet. You have to checkraise a lot more.

TJ's advice really doesn't apply here at all, if you think the button will bet a big range of hands that range of hands doesn't get any smaller since they don't fold after betting for so small an amount.

2nd hand i'd just fold it's not strong enough. I may call in the CO after a few callers inbetween in the hopes of improving.