An Interesting WSOP scenario...

[djdonnel]

A friend and I were discussing the following scenario:

You're in the WSOP (or any other big buy in/large field, multi-day nl tourney).

You're dealt pocket aces on the first hand (or very very early on, meaning everyone's stacks are still pretty much even, and you haven't had much of a chance to scout out the play of everyone at the table). You are faced with calling an all-in raise (either someone went all in before you acted, or you made a raise, and were reraised all-in). Do you call with your rockets, or muck em?

Does your decision change if you're sitting at a table with a bunch of unknowns at the table vs taking a seat and finding the likes of Chan, Ivey and Hellmuth all sitting to your left?

I'd love to hear some thoughts...

[djdonnel]

In case it wasn't clear in my initial post, we are to assume that calling the all-in raise would put you all in yourself...

[harboral]

Getting bumped out of a tournament, at any point, sucks. However, you couldn't get me to lay down Aces with a gun! You are either a reasonable favorite, or a huge favorite. Now if your question had involved AK, KK or QQ - then I would have a tough time. I have laid down KK in a tournament (that's the toughest decision), along with all lower hands - because I want to guarantee that I stay in the tournament. A recent post asked about QQ and although most agreed (Ray Zee also) that you HAD to play them (the situation was more favorable), I might still lay them down to try and guarantee a spot in the money. I have a lot of tourny wins under my belt with this strategy - but on the other hand, I have never won a major..............so maybe I need to gamble more.

[djdonnel]

My initial thoughts on the subject were very similar to yours. With aces, you know you have the best hand right now, and if you can't get your money in the pot with aces, then when can you?

But my friend made me second guess my initial thoughts about it in this situation. The WSOP this yearis a six day tournament...most other multi-day tourneys are at least 3 or 4 days. So when faced with this scenario we are days away from getting into the money, let alone winning the whole thing.

As big a favorite as aces are, we all know that they do in fact get cracked. The question that needs to be asked: is it worth risking (even as a rather large favorite with aces)getting knocked out of the tournament right then and there to double up your stack this early? Will having $20,000 in chips this early in make you significantly more likely to last 4-5 more days?

I'm beginning to lean towards answering no to both of those questions. Especially if I'm sitting at a table with a bunch of unknowns, where there's a good chance I may be one of the best, if not the best player at my table. In this case, I can be reasonably sure that over the course of a few hours I can accumulate just as many chips through superior play both pre and post flop, without risking my entire stack.

Which is why I posed the idea of sitting down with a table with the like of a Phil Helmuth, Phil Ivey and Co. I certainly would not be as confident that I will win over time due to superior play..probably the opposite in fact. I'd feel like I'd be overmatched in the long run. Thus I'd be more inclined to get all my chips in now when I know I have the best of it, rather than take my chances clashing with the pros in situations where I may not know where I am.

[OrangeKing]

With any other hand, there is no way I'd call - the 10,000 chips I stand to lose are way more valuable than the 10,000+ I'd be trying to get. Plus, it's very likely that the other player has aces (especially on a reraise), and on the first hand I can't assume they're a horrible player. So I'm likely to be an underdog, and I'd want to be a solid favorite to make that call.

With aces? I never want to be in this situation, that's for sure. But I think you have to make that call, especially if you're at a table of pros like you mentioned, since you might not get another shot at pulling in a lot of chips the rest of the day. It's always hard to put your whole tournament on the line on the first hand, but if ever there was a time to do it, that would be it.

[ghettorat]

AA is the best possible start, but that early AA still has way too much of a chance to lose to any two cards. I'll take my chances later in the tourney. I'd probably muck. I would actually be more likely to call one of the big names. At least then if I lose I have a great story.

[spamuell]

This has been discussed to death on RGP, with numerous big names making their input - search the archives, I can't find it at the moment. Most people say call.

A much more interesting discussion (IMHO) is what you would do if you were sitting in the BB with AA, and everyone on your table pushed in before it was your turn to act... would you call? See this thread http://tinyurl.com/37soz started by Paul Phillips about that.

[CrackerZack]

First off, everyone pushing in is 1938472685023832745% different than calling a single opponents allin. 2nd, there is not a single poster on this site whose name doesn't appear in Red, and even some of them, that should make this laydown. We are all dead money in a tournament, luck just greatly smiled on us and we're gonna pass it up. You're on crack.

[TheGrifter]

You mention two different situations:

1. Someone raised in front of you:
- Easy fold. The blinds are meaningless at this point. Your opponent most likely has AA meaning you will probably tie but have a slight chance to lose (or win). Why risk everything you have at this point? Doubling up this early in a tournament is nice, but it doesn't even guarantee you'll survive 5 hands, much less 5 days. Your opponent obviously is not playing well, an all in raise this early is stupid with any hand, so wait until you have a big advantage after the flop. It costs you nothing to fold.

2. You were re-raised.
- This depends entirely on the amount of the raise and re-raise. I would say if you have 1/3 of your stack in this is an easy call. If it was a small 3x BB raise that you made initially it's an easy fold. In between, use your judgement.

[JohnnyF]

"Especially if I'm sitting at a table with a bunch of unknowns, where there's a good chance I may be one of the best, if not the best player at my table."

I would be surprised if this was true. There is not a single pro tourney player who would fold AA in this situation.