Me Moron (i.e. betting when you expect to call)

[rharless]

Game was nice, loose and passive. With a thin holding, I often like to check and call the 1SB closing the action if I can. I have been experimenting with "if you are going to call a bet then it is usually better to bet yourself" though I do not know if this hand was a good option for that. I do hate getting raised with a thin holding [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

What do you think about this flop bet?

Party Poker 5/10 (10 handed)
rharless has 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and is BB

Six limpers, SB limps, rharless checks

Flop(8 SB): T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB checks, rharless bets, two limpers fold, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO & Button call, SB raises, rharless calls, MP1 calls, CO & Button fold

Turn(8 BB): 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB bets, rharless calls, MP1 folds

River(10 BB): 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB bets, rharless raises, SB calls

This hand really angered my opponent. After the hand, he called me a Moron and was clearly Displeased. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[CrackerZack]

I'd likely play it the same way. You should ask him, "wot du yu wont mee too do?" "Im nota mooron"

[rharless]

I replied "hugs and kisses," but I like your reply better. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Jezebel]

[ QUOTE ]
I have been experimenting with "if you are going to call a bet then it is usually better to bet yourself"

[/ QUOTE ]

I hear this quote all the time. However, I rarely hear people include the most important part of the quote which is, ".....if your bet has a reasonable chance to win the pot right there by making your opponent fold."


Betting into a field of 7 opponents is very unlikely to take the pot immediately in my opinion. You are putting the 8th bet into the pot on the flop. There are a lot of hands that can call your flop bet with 8+ bets in the pot. (overcards are very likely on a Ten high board, gutshots, oesd, top pair, etc.)

I would need a much smaller field to feel that a semibluff with middle pair/no kicker has more value than checking and seeing how the play develops.

[Lost Wages]

I think that this was a bad spot to bet the flop. With 6 players left to act what do you hope to accomplish by betting? If you don't improve on the turn you will likely have to fold so you want to see the turn as cheaply as possible. Your kicker coordinates with the board so even 2 pair may be no good.

Lost Wages

[rharless]

I'm not at all trying to semi bluff and I certainly do not expect all are going to fold.

[rharless]

There is a sample hand in the HPFAP loose games section, a hand which I admittedly do not understand well, which is why I am experimenting as such. In the hand, the player holds something like JT and the flop is something like A87 and the authors advocate betting here. I do not remember the specifics and I do not have the book with me right now, but I remember it seemed like an incredibly thin bet. So, I'm trying to figure that one out.

I might be remembering the hand wrong but I clearly remember that it was not an OE straight, and not a flush draw, and there was an overcard on the board to the player's two cards.

When your kicker coordinates with the board (as it did here), that can be bad for two pair but also it can be good in other ways, such as happened with this hand.

[bernie]

sb have a T? he mustve loved the bet coming from his left if he was planning on c/r. the dip.

i think betting out here is ok. you may get a J,Q or K to fold. if you're ahead, and you get 2 of those to fold, it's worth it, imo.

you also gotta love the CO and button folding here. especially since they are so close to closing the action getting about 16-1. of course, they may know the sb's play and know he isnt doing this with a draw. but im not going to give them that much credit.

[ QUOTE ]
After the hand, he called me a Moron and was clearly Displeased.

[/ QUOTE ]

i smile inside when they rain down on me with these compliments. sometimes, ill ask them why? or some other leading question. it's amazing how much theyll be more than happy to tell you how to (they) play. and being a gal, they may even elaborate even more.

b

[Magikist]

I agree with Jezebel. I think you misapplied a principle.

As I understood the idea, it's really only relevant when heads up on the river.

Betting into a large field on the flop with a marginal holding is usually incorrect unless you believe at least one of these conditions: 1.) you have the best hand, 2.) everyone will fold, or 3.) you have a good chance of improving to the best hand.

You acknowledged that your bet didn't satisfy any of those conditions. So what WERE you trying to accomplish - getting raised?

[Jezebel]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not at all trying to semi bluff and I certainly do not expect all are going to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

If not, then what is your bet trying to accomplish? Do you think that your hand is solid and you need to build the pot?