Call/Raise on the button preflop...anyone do this?

PokerSlut · #1 12-25-2003, 11:01 PM

I was in a hand a few minutes ago that I thought I'd relate:

1/2 Holdem on PP

I'm in the BB with AK, 2 limpers in MP, and the button limps. I raise, limpers call, and the button RE-raises.

At this point I am totally confused. I basically check-called the rest of the way (nothing hit my AK) just to see what he had. He had a 77 and caught a set on the turn.

Does anyone do this, or recommend this kind of thing? It's the first time I've ever seen something like this and it really threw me off.

Lost Wages · #2 12-26-2003, 02:45 AM

No, it's for players that like to gamble. Not for players that know how to play poker.

Lost Wages

ProfLupin · #3 12-26-2003, 03:38 AM

Most of the time you get this when someone has AA or KK and tries to be tricky. I see this a lot and I usually fold shortly after. You won't see 77 do this often, but when you do see it, you can be assured of some sort of pocket pair.

Bob T. · #4 12-26-2003, 05:08 AM

I agree, he already had a multiway pot, if he just raised. The limp reraise in this instance, is almost certainly an indication that the button is a bad player regardless of what he holds.

Schneids · #5 12-26-2003, 07:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
when you do see it, you can be assured of some sort of pocket pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

You may also see suited connectors or Axs occasionally try this, depending on the number of players in the pot, and their position in relation to the raiser.

Note that doing such a play on the button with a mid PP or suited connectors is a great way to get yourself a free turn card, if the initial raiser and a lot of the field is weak/passive (this is KEY. Button has to know that they'll all "check to the call-raiser" on the flop...either out of fear or desire to check raise). Sometimes this is huge in that it'll give your suited connector cards a free (in the sense that you paid one more SB preflop to ensure it won't be two bets to you on the flop) runner runner draw while vastly disguising your hand. Same idea applies with the PP and can give you a free chance to spike a two outer.

I would't recommend regularly doing either of these, but there are definitely some situations where it is a workable option since it allows you to manipulate the pot and get you the pot odds to chase more draws with drawing hands. I would personally never do it, but if one were to, it is also best against people you commonly play against.

Schneids · #6 12-26-2003, 07:21 AM

See my post. There are merits to it in the perfect situation.

bernie · #7 12-26-2003, 10:52 AM

a player does this with a pkt pair, 1 time, and he is branded a terrible player? dont think so. hard to believe some will judge that quick. it may be true, but much more information is needed. there is no pattern of play to go by here.

this is a great move to try at times as schneids mentioned. note the 'at times' part of that sentence. even with suiteds. if one is going to explore the limp reraise, id do it with more than JUST AA or KK.

but let's look at the hand. the hero was totally confused by it. isnt that a main idea in cards? not to be predictable? make players wonder what you have instead of just being known to play top cards predictably? these hands are usually very well diguised when they hit and it can really make aggressive overpair postflop players pay.

but you still have to pick your spots.

one of the best compliments you can get is when someone says they cant put you on a hand.

b

chesspain · #8 12-26-2003, 11:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]

one of the best compliments you can get is when someone says they cant put you on a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really...I think that about half of the fish against whom I play at Party [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

colgin · #9 12-26-2003, 11:22 AM

Notwithstanding the fact that it had deceptive value, I am not sure I understand how this can be a profitable play. In a multiway pot, pocket 7s generally need to make a set. With only the 2 MP limpers and the BB in the pot Button's hand thrives on implied odds when he makes his set. Your pre-flop raise from the BB hurts those implied odds and the Button's re-raise then hurts it further. He has that many more bets to make up if he flops his set. Plus, if he does so will he not necessarily get the action he wants having potentially advertised a bigger pre-flop hand than he had. You did not say what the two MP limpers did but you checked and called all the way down. Even without hitting your hand you might have been inclined to bet your AK but for the pre-flop reraise. Also, if an Ace or King had fallen you might have been more reluctant to bet it (or more likely, re-raise it, when Button raised) for fear of pocket Aces or Kings. The set of 7s wants TPTK betting into it on the flop and/or turn.

brian0729 · #10 12-26-2003, 11:23 AM

Hey Bernie,

I dont agree with this at all. If you are going to limp reraise from EP with something less than AA or KK I think that is acceptable for deceptive reasons from time to time, but certainly not from LP. If he wants to get free cards he should have raised in the first place.

Limp reraising in this spot is terrible. If I were in the hero's hand I would have capped PF and bet right out into him no matter what the flop was forcing him to pay at least two more sb's to continue. I however probably would have folded on the turn if I didnt get my A or K. If he had a hand that was reasonable he should have raised it the first time around. I think this play was a great way to lose a lot of money.