Three Kings at Christmas, 5/10

[JohnShaft]

I think I may have messed this one up.
I'm interested in what you all would have done, and how clear you think the decision is.

Online 5/10 UB Typical
(8 dealt in)
Hero open raises UTG1 with K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
TAG UTG2 cold-calls
Everyone else folds, headsup to the flop.

Flop
T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero bets, TAG calls.

Turn
Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero bets, TAG raises, Hero 3-bets, TAG calls.

River
6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero bets, TAG raises

Your move?

[mauisupaman]

I can't see a hand that a TAG player would call 2 cold PF and have you beat on the river. He's not tight and aggressive if he called with AJ or worse J9. I hope you reraised on the river.

[SpaceAce]

The only hand you're really afraid of here is AJ. Would he cold-call two with AJ in that position? I think if he had AJ, he would have capped the turn. If you think he's cagey enough to not cap you on the turn just to suck more out of you with his AJ on the river, call. Otherwise, raise him again.

Let's say he has a set of Queens. The only things he is afraid of are AJ and KK so I can definitely see him raising his set of Queens, here. I think he's playing KQ or QQ, but without more information that's really just a shot in the dark.

SpaceAce

[GuyOnTilt]

If the opponent was a bit tricky, I would just call. If he was straight-forward, I'd 3-bet.

I had thought through a very similar HU situation just last night, as one came up in which I turned the nut straight versus what I believed was a set by my opponent. I was in position and raised the turn. He 3-bet and I just called. The river was a blank and we capped it. Since most players would rule out of the straight after you fail to reraise the turn, they are more likely to think the river card helped you when you raise them on the river, and so you can get them to overplay their sets or high two-pair. At worst, you gain the same by capping the turn and having them check-call the river, as if you call the 3-bet and raise the river, and have them wuss out and just call. But most of the time, I think you'll find yourself getting to cap the river when a blank falls.

So like I said, I'd probably just call against a tricky opponent, and 3-bet against a straight-forward one.

GoT

[Joe Tall]

These Three Kings hopefully are bearing you gifts.

Is that Tight-aggresssive or Tricky-aggressive?

Either way, I think I'd call.

Happy Holidays,
Joe Tall

[brian0729]

Hey John

Im going against JT and GOT on this one. If you respect his play and he is tight aggressive the only hands I think he would cold call your raise with would be QQ, KK, or AA and very few others but some are possible I guess although Im not sure what. I think most tight players would three bet the QQ but maybe not and you have that beat. KK, he doesnt have that. I think he has AA and would raise the river. I think he was limping to go for a reraise or get some more money into the pot preflop. I think he knew he was beat on the turn and is bluff raising because he cant stand the fact that he played his AA poorly and its beat.

[rkiray]

[ QUOTE ]
If you respect his play and he is tight aggressive the only hands I think he would cold call your raise with would be QQ, KK, or AA and very few others but some are possible I guess although Im not sure what.

[/ QUOTE ]

TAGs do not call with these hands. They almost always 3 bet them. Unless this person had played with John a bunch and was trying for deception. But I think this is a funny place for that. A TAG that calls 2 cold, not 3-bet always raises my suspicions.

I think you played the hand fine John.

[brian0729]

I agree with what you say. I think if John's description is accurate TAG is making this play for decptive reasons only.

[JohnShaft]

Thanks guys.
Firstly, a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

Hah. I think I've thrown people off with my description though. Firstly the hand description has a little spin on it.

I'm not Hero, I'm the (self proclaimed!) TAG.
Hero had previously raised with a couple of decent hands (AQ-ish), and had 3-bet an UTG raise (and cold-caller) with 87s (I'd capped with AK) so I was undecided as to what I could put him on.
I decided to make a super-rare cold-call, not with a premium hand, but with something I didn't want to throw away against *him* in this spot. AJs.
Checking my copy of HPFAP (page 20) I see this exact situation described, where it says "it may be correct" to throw away AJs in EP against an "extremely tight" PF raiser. I obviously didn't put him as this, given his 87s 3-bet earlier.
I thought the hand was too good to throw away against him, or end up playing for 4 bets, and expected to be able to drag in a couple more with a cold-call. Sadly it went headsup.

I took a card off for the gutshot, otherwise I was prepared to fold to a Turn bet.
Hitting it I raised, when he 3-bet I knew he had something big. Here's were I believe I made the mistake. I *didn't* call the 3-bet, as in the hand description. I *capped* it without a second thought.
And when he check-called the River brick and I saw he had KK I thought "Ugh! I should have made more with that."
I couldn't believe I didn't get to raise the River at least once.

I then figured if, like Guy, I'd called the Turn 3-bet with the nuts I could have raised the River and maybe even got chance to cap if a brick hit.
So there you have it.

The fact a couple of you suggested the call to the Raise on the River tells me maybe the cap wasn't that bad. Guy (who'd just used this play and someone) and Joe were certainly all over it.

As for the merits of AJs I'm a little suprised to see it described as an auto-fold (or RR only) hand against an EP raise in EP. Admittedly you didn't know that I had a reason for cold-calling him, that he wouldn't have for me.

I'm *almost* always one for 3-betting potentially thin PF raisers, like you all are no doubt. But I do think there are occassions it isn't the best play.

Am I the only one who thinks cold-calling, with most of the table left to act, in this situation is acceptable?
Do I have to hand in my TAG badge? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[JohnShaft]

[ QUOTE ]
TAGs do not call with these hands. They almost always 3 bet them. Unless this person had played with John a bunch and was trying for deception. But I think this is a funny place for that. A TAG that calls 2 cold, not 3-bet always raises my suspicions.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right Rick, I 3-bet him here, with a big PP like 1000% of the time.

That's what made it strange, because I thought if he knew me he'd be thinking "He cold-called? What?". I seriously couldn't remember the last time I'd done it myself.
Of course cold-calling is the norm in a lot of games, even at 5-10.

I'm still not sure about my CC myself. But I guess, as I got lucky, it turned out OK in the end. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]