against a flush draw, multiway, topset

[mts]

seems like i'm in this boat so many times. Flopped set against 2 suited cards on the flop. Capped preflop, flop, and 3 bet the turn. When the flush card hits the river its bet once and called. there were 7 people preflop then 4 until the river. Do i make the most in the long run betting/raising/reraising every chance i get or does check/calling work until the river to see if the flush makes it or not.

I guess results are altering my perception. Of course its best to get as many bets as possible until the flush hits... right?

[mts]

ive stuck to playing 5/10 or below. I was wondering if in the bigger games if anyone EVER folds a flush draw in a 10 handed game. My experience is NO, people will chase until the river no matter what, even if you bet/raise in a way that would make it inappropriate for them to chase (pot odds).

[jt1]

You know the answer already. When you have the best hand you bet and raise unless you're trying to get more people to call. But even if the flop is 3 suited and 4th on the turn, with enough players, capping is good here too, because the money you win when hitting your boat will ofset the money lost from not hitting. The same principle applies when you have nutflush draw in multiway pots.

[JohnShaft]

mts this is the 'problem' it's very, very hard for the betting to go in such a way that a good flush draw should fold. The nature of them is that you only need a couple of opponents putting money in to get the pot/implied odds.

Once they've flopped a 4-flush they are basically going nowhere.
Give me a situation where it would be correct of them to fold (on an unpaired board). You'll have to work the numbers a fair bit to make the fold correct, even if they know what you have. And you'll have to make it headsup, or all but.

If you have any examples of flush draws that "should have folded" throw one out, and we'll look at it from an odds point of view.
It really is wishful thinking to expect anyone to fold a flush draw.

[bernie]

if you know others are also on the flush draw and some of your outs are gone. which can be tough to do.

i posted a hand long ago, i may still have it, where i folded a nut flush draw on the turn without a paired board.

i think ive only done that twice in my career so far. hence, a great rarity.

you also need a great read. and not throw up should you see that you folded the winner. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

b

[mts]

fair enough.


I believe it comes up sometimes where the flush draw may be calling 2 cold with reverse implied odds. However, i did infact say (in a way) that the game would be tougher than a typical 5/10 online game. It would probably never come up where a person limps in early position with Axs or Kxs(2 overcards + flush draw is too good to fold, thats why i chose Axs).


Calling 3 or more cold is correct for the nut flush draw in any non-paired board situation. Conceiling your hand might be a problem, i know i get worried when i see someone calling 3 bets cold on a flush draw board but thats a different topic.

Thanks for setting me straight :P

[BigEndian]

It would definitely be a rare situation to fold a nut or second nut flush draw. Shoot, with three or more players, I'm usually the one 3-betting and capping it.

- Jim

[mts]

i agree with you on this point. Valuebetting flush draws is money.

[Bob T.]

Valuebetting flush draws is money.

Then you need to look at top set as a full house draw. On the turn, you are more likely to make the full house, than you are to make the flush. Sometimes both come in [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]!