Betting, because I want to fold without regret

[rharless]

I think this illustrates a problem of mine:

Party Poker 5/10 (10 handed), standard table - a few fish, but several good players
rharless has Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and is SB

UTG (average) raises, Button (fishy) calls, rharless reraises, BB (solid) calls, UTG calls, Button calls

Flop(12 SB): 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

rharless bets, BB calls, UTG raises, Button reraises, rharless folds, BB folds, UTG reraises (cap), Button calls

(etc)

In other words: I raise preflop with a premium hand, and then even if I strongly suspect that I have been outflopped, I bet because I hate check-folding in these scenarios. So I bet right out, and I almost (in an odd way) hope that I am raised so I can make an easy decision. If I am called, then I do not know how to proceed.

(final results: UTG AQo, Button JJ for winner)

By contrast:
Party Poker 2/4 (10 handed)
rharless has Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and is BB

CO limps, Button folds, SB limps, rharless raises, CO calls, SB folds

Flop(5 SB): 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

rharless bets, CO (hestitates and) calls

Turn(3 1/2 BB): J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

rharless bets, CO (hesitates a long time when he usually acts quickly and) calls

River(5 1/2 BB): 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

rharless bets, CO folds


This second one was much easier because it is headsup and I felt his lack of confidence. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Bob T.]

I think you played them both well. If you check, and it is one bet to you on the first hand, you can't do anything with confidence. With a bet and a raise after you bet out, it is an easy fold. The problem would of course be if it was one bet headsup when it go back to you, because you might be facing a flush/ straight draw, instead of a better hand than yours.

[Mike Gallo]

Rharless,

Hand one I think you played well. If you had the Queen of trump, I would make an argument for peeling one off. However given all of the action on the flop someone has you beat.

Hand two you controlled the situation well.

[Luke]

I get your point but in the 1st hand, it's hard to imagine many worse flops for your hand against a preflop capper, a solid player in the BB who called two, and some other fish. Assuming the UTG capper has reasonable standards, I can really only think of 2 hands that he might have (TT, KQs) that you are ahead of. Not to mention the draws that exist and the strong possibility that one of the other players hit a hand.

While in many cases, I'll come out betting with a hand like QQ and an ace on the flop and be willing to fold, this isn't one of them. I think you can check and fold to most bets.

As for hand 2, just keep betting. I'm not fearing a single opponent who has shown no aggression and done nothing but call.

Luke

[rharless]

Hand 1 was not capped preflop. I 3-bet from the SB and they all called.

Still, with two solid players in the hand, one who raised on his own UTG, and the other who cold called two, I felt I was not in very good shape.

[JTG51]

You played both just fine.

[lostinthought]

I think you played both of the hands fine... If you have pokertracker you could look at your QQ histories and compare the above hands with the times that the flop hits you well - e.g. you make an overpair or set. Premium hands don't guarantee a win, but preflop you have to put those bets in..

Anyways, one question for everyone - say the second hand is played the exact same, except that the opponent raises the last bet on the river.. do you fold and figure you're beat, or do you call the raise?

[Luke]

rharless,

My bad, I was zipping through a bunch of posts and I got them muddled. The non-cap changes things a bit and that would have me leaning towards betting and then folding to the raises as you did. It still is a terrible flop for you but you need to place the bet out there and see how the other players react.

[Luke]

Anyways, one question for everyone - say the second hand is played the exact same, except that the opponent raises the last bet on the river.. do you fold and figure you're beat, or do you call the raise?

I'd just call.

[Barry]

This is not a problem of yours at all. I think that you played them well, but I'm not sure that I could have found a way to bet the river in hand 2

I have been thinking about this situation a lot lately, perhaps as it's been occuring a lot lately. I feel a lot better, betting and folding to a raise than check/folding or check/calling.

My heartburn now comes when I bet and am only called in 1 or 2 places. How many shots do I fire?