AK AQ chasing

[Norm]

When I raise with AK or AQ and the flop misses me but is ragged, I find it hard to fold the hand on the flop - I always think someone is making a bluff move on the pot. Aren't you being predictable if you always raise preflop and then fold postflop? Won't people bet just to get "Mr weak-tight" out of the hand?

[crockpot]

sure they will. your correct play depends on how many other people saw the flop. against one or two opponents you should bet the flop since you can easily have the best hand and you wouldn't mind taking the pot down. against a lot of opponents, you may be getting bluffed out, but you don't have a whole lot going for your hand since your outs may be no good. besides, the more players in the pot, the more likely it is that someone hit something.

[chesspain]

HEFAP player suggests that you checkraise the turn at least 50% of the time with your good hands, so that you can better disguise hands that AK/AQ when they miss the flop (even though you bet) and the turn. Of course, this assumes that you're playing at limits where the opponents are actually paying attention and taking notes on you.

[ElSapo]

My play when I miss with these two hands is largely dependent on how many opponents remain. If there are more than a couple, I have no problem giving this up. But if there are only two, or maybe three and I have position, I play it a bit more agressively.

If I get called, for instance, by the button and the BB, and the BB checks, I'll bet it. Basically, I'm hoping to fold the button (well, ideally both) and see the river for 1 SB, assuming I don't catch and don't want to continue betting just ace-high.

If the BB bets out, and only me and the button remain, I'll raise occassionally. But this is also dependent on the board, and what I think he may have. He's not going to fold to my raise, most likely, and so I need to be pretty sure the button will fold and I can get that river cheaply, or again bet the turn.

If there is just the BB and an EP limper, perhaps, and they check to me, I'll bet it - again, basically looking for them to check to me again and I check as well on the turn, assuming I miss and both call.

If I bet the flop and am bet into on the turn, I have to give this up. One shot to hit six cards that may or may not be good isn't what I'm looking for.

If there are two between me and the button, and maybe one limper before, or the BB and a limper, I'm much more inclined to just check and fold, or possibly check-call once.

One difficulty with checking behind on the turn is that you often give away your hand. Which means, assuming a blank on the end, many opponents will bet into you with nothing on the end. So you have to, if they're paying attention, call with ace-high on occasion to keep them from stealing too often.

Basically, sometimes you have to keep firing with ace-high, uncomfortable as it may be. And sometimes you have to check-fold it. A lot of the profit comes in knowing when to do which.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
When I raise with AK or AQ and the flop misses me but is ragged, I find it hard to fold the hand on the flop -

[/ QUOTE ]

This becomes a dynamic situation in hold'em. Depending on the consistancy of the flop and your opponents; you'll have to decide numerous things.

Let's say you are bet into:

1. Are my over-card outs clean? Such that, simply, the board is uncoordinated and if you hit your A or K, you hand will still be good.

2. Do I have pot odds to hunt an overcard? You'll need 7:1 to hunt an A or K, more often than not you'll have pot odds if there are at least 2 opponents.

3. How many players are there acting in front of you and to act behind you, will influence your flop action. If you think an EP flop better is betting out to 'test' you and you are sure that your overcards are clean, plus the players behind you will fold; you may want to raise to 'clean up' your outs. In addition to the fact that you may get a free river card if the EP checks the turn.

When it's checked to you:

1. Is the board a good enough one to bet without getting raised behind/or check-rasied? Quite similar to #1 above you'll have to decide on what boards may have hit your opponents and what boards have not.

2. Is there a chance to take the pot down here? If it's the right board this question is answered by the image you represent and what type of opponents you are facing.

3. Is my AK alone good? Sometimes, yet few, it will be. Obviously, the less uncooridanted board and fewer opponents, your odds of a sole AK could be good. In low limit games, where there are multiple opponents, you will rarely have this situation.

If anyone wishes to add/correct, please do.

Welcome to the forum,
Joe Tall

[Norm]

Excellent responses from all of you [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
How would you play a more marginal overcard hand that you limped in with preflop (like KJ)?

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
How would you play a more marginal overcard hand that you limped in with preflop (like KJ)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Very diffently, with a hand such as KJ you over-card out are not as clean, this is why it can become a difficult hand to play post flop, especailly, against numerous opponents.

Peace,
JT

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course, this assumes that you're playing at limits where the opponents are actually paying attention and taking notes on you.

[/ QUOTE ]

If very well does. The move that is described in HPFAP here will be mostly applicable to higher-limits games or the 2+2 Tuesday .5/1 night game.

Peace,
JT

[CrackerZack]

This pretty much sums it up. The only thing I would add is when the flop is real ragged and your opponents are reasonable, if you're bet into, often your AK is still good. They could be betting as little as ace high or a gutshot draw figuring if you miss, they can take this pot. I like to raise ragged flops when I miss with my AK because I raise ragged flops when I have JJ-AA also. If very passive players come out betting, or there is a bet and a couple of calls, its usually best to give up.

Zack

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
They could be betting as little as ace high or a gutshot draw figuring if you miss, they can take this pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, yes, against very few opponents this is true as the odds of your opponent bluffing/semi-bluffing increase with you AK being good.

Thanks Zack,
JT