CARD COUNTING VS POKER

wontons · #1 11-30-2003, 10:57 AM

My question is for those of you who can indeed count cards and have implemented the system at casino's. After reading the book "Bringing down the house" it is explained and I can explain the concept of the running count and true count very easily..I recently went to a casino and applied this technique to a degree. I won about 200 at the table I was at for 1 hr But was not taking advantage of the betting increments which the card counting method is all about...has neone tryed card counting in the casino's all stories welcome. Thanks.

Homer · #2 11-30-2003, 01:40 PM

I've tried card counting, and have found that I like poker better. Some of the reasons for this are:

- You don't have to worry about heat, as you will never be barred/backed off from a poker table.

- You can establish the same win rate with a much smaller bankroll.

- You can play poker online, whereas you can't count cards online.

- Poker is a much less mechanical game than blackjack, which means you are less likely to become bored (the first three statements are factual, whereas this is just my opinion).

Just a few thoughts...

-- Homer

scalf · #3 11-30-2003, 04:19 PM

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]..won..

get a job mowing lawns instead of casing the decks...lol..mowing is more interesting, more fun, less boring, and more profitable ; especially after they start countermeasures...

jmho..gl.. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

zooey · #4 11-30-2003, 04:28 PM

Amen to everything Homer said.

I started out in BJ, and put in 2000 hours in before getting barred at my local joint in 99. (Turning Stone, Upstate NY) Luckily, they opened up their poker room a month later, and I never looked back.

To make a unit an hour, you need a BR of about 500-1000 units, depending on your risk tolerance and quality of the games. To make a unit an hour at poker, you only need ~300 units for the same risk. In other words, for a given BR, your earn will be twice as much in poker.

The only opportunity for using any kind of imagination or decision making skills is in evaluating games or dodging heat. Other than that, you're a brain dead robot. Poker can be a grind, but its never as bad as BJ. Besides, east coast BJ is not the best.

So if you're curious, by all means check it out and have some fun, but don't expect too much, IMHO.

That said, I'm going to Vegas for the 1st time this xmas, and I've never played a single deck shoe before! So I'm going to give it a whirl, and maybe have a little fun getting chased around.

Here are my questions:

Anyone want to reccomend a book? I'm looking for something a little more complex that the Uston simple +- I used on the 6 deck east coast shoes. Maybe a multi-level count OR a simple count with a side count of A's. Maybe 16 or so plays with indices.

Anyone want to reccomend a joint? I'm looking to play single deck, with table mins from $15 to maybe as high as $50, depending on how poker at the Mirage goes. I understand it will be tough slogging to spread more than 1-5.

Thanks for any opinions,

Zooey

Porcupine · #5 11-30-2003, 10:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone want to reccomend a book? I'm looking for something a little more complex that the Uston simple +- I used on the 6 deck east coast shoes. Maybe a multi-level count OR a simple count with a side count of A's.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would recommended "Professional Blackjack" by Stanford Wong (see www.bj21.com). It contains a simple "plus/minus" as well a 3 level (if I remember right) count "halves". Don't forget: you are generally better off doing a simple count perfectly versus a more complicated count "near perfect". An occaisional mistake will ruin any edge you gained by using the "better" count system.

lefty rosen · #6 12-01-2003, 12:33 AM

From what I heard they pretty much leave the low limit card counter alone(guys that play red chips).

Bartleby · #7 12-01-2003, 10:30 AM

Vegas has gotten tougher on Blackjack. Last time I was there, many of the places that had single deck bj went to a 6:5 payout on BJ. You will BJ just a little over 4% so this essentially wipes out most of the advantage of counting. I think some of the casinos did the same with Double Deck too. Good Luck on your trip. There's still poker.

Roy Munson · #8 12-01-2003, 09:38 PM

Even low limit players can get heat. The primary reason I started playing poker was because I grew tired of the barrings. First, the Barbary Coast, then Circus Circus, followed by the Horseshoe, the Orleans, etc.

All barrings occured at tables with a $10 minimum or lower.
I still play Blackjack with my wife whenever our vacations take us to a gambling destination. She seems to provide good cover.

wontons · #9 12-01-2003, 11:04 PM

How long do you feel one has to practice every day to beable to count cards effectively...I played spanish 21 for the 1st time and was able to identify when there was a significant high plus count however I still felt the rate at the cards being dealt i could not keep a 100% correct plus minus count. if the min is 10 and ur usual bet is 15 should u never bet over 50 on hand to evide the heat?

Homer · #10 12-02-2003, 12:46 AM

if the min is 10 and ur usual bet is 15 should u never bet over 50 on hand to evide the heat?

You won't be playing a +EV game with a 3:1 spread unless you're playing a single deck game.

If you're really interested in counting get your hands on Professional Blackjack by Wong, then Blackjack Attack by Schlessinger. These books will answer almost all of your questions.

-- Homer