Two Pair Chip Bleed - anyone have stats

Mike · #1 11-22-2003, 02:55 AM

This seems to be a gaping ragged hole in my game of late. It seems in this spot I am losing more than I win. Maybe I am only seeing what I want to or maybe I am overplaying my hands in this situation?

Any LL game holding two big cards not paired. Flop comes down Big, Big, anything else. No flush or connected straight on the board. I now have two pair, life is great! Bet out and of course called in 2 or more places.

Turn comes some other harmless card. I bet out, and am raised and called by at least a third player. I call the raise of course, as my hand is big!

River is something that makes a four flush or four straight. I bet out, and...yep, raised again. I call only to see trips made back on the flop.

Like I said, maybe selective memory. It sure seems as if I have been slicing open my juggler vein on these hands. I have seen other players lay down two big pair on a raise on the turn from the field, but I have a hard time doing it.

What is your general play here?

gonores · #2 11-22-2003, 03:46 AM

This is a very confusing post. You start out with an innocuous flop, but end with a 4-flush or 4-straight.

If you get to the turn and the board is not scary, if you bet out and are called and raised by multiple players, you have a huge leak if you are not reraising.

Laying down two big pairs on the turn on a non-scary board is insane.

Regardless of whether or not the board is scary, calling a raise on the turn and subsequently betting out on the river is rarely going to be right.

astroglide · #3 11-22-2003, 03:48 AM

my play is to not fold to a raise, and not bet out on the river

Ulysses · #4 11-22-2003, 07:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
No flush or connected straight on the board.
...
Turn comes some other harmless card. I bet out, and am raised and called by at least a third player.

[/ QUOTE ]

3-bet.

[ QUOTE ]
River is something that makes a four flush or four straight. I bet out, and...yep, raised again. I call only to see trips made back on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why on earth are you betting out in this spot?

Sounds like you're calling when you're likely to be ahead and betting when you're likely to be behind. That's a bad plan.

Mike · #5 11-22-2003, 01:52 PM

Of late, I am getting gunshy when I there is a checkraise on the turn and I am holding two pair. In this situation lately it seems for every pot I win, I am losing that pot plus a few chips on a future play with two pair.

Someone making trips on the flop is the reason as they don't push them like I would play a set. Maybe it's just players who play too passively. I don't know really. This situation is bleeding away chips or so it seems, or at least more than I think it should. Perhaps it's my time to get beat with two pair more than I should balancing out the rest of the times I didn't?

Mike · #6 11-22-2003, 01:53 PM

Sorry about the confusion, I meant no completed flush possible. Two flush or straight cards on the board at the river.

gonores · #7 11-22-2003, 03:51 PM

If you are basically saying that no draws got home (unless they played something insane like 36o), then there is never a good reason to fold top two pair. If the board isn't scary, I can lose 6 or 7 big bets with top two pair and still be very happy with my play (or more, depending on who I am playing with, which two pair I have exactly, etc.) The trips won't be there often enough in the long run to scare you.