Maniac Aces

Michael J. Sykes · #1 11-19-2003, 10:35 AM

Most of the players in this 15-30 online game played a bit too loose. Seated to my immediate right was the maniac. Before the flop, this fellow raised about 65% of the time, limped 10% of the time, and folded 25%. After the flop, the maniac would usually fold hopeless hands, but he played his draws and marginal hands very aggressively.

In mid-late position, A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] appears on my monitor. UTG limps, maniac limps (damn!), I raise, the button and small blind call as do the limpers. Five players and 11 small bets are in the pot when the flop comes K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Checked to the maniac who bets. The button folds to my raise, the two early position players cold-call, and the maniac three-bets. I decide to just call here with the intention of raising the maniac on the turn if the turn card isn't terrible. Comments?

The callers call again, and we all watch the innocuous 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] appear on our screens. Of course the callers check to the maniac, who surprises everybody by checking. Well, I have to bet now! Right?

This is where events take an unfortunate turn. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] My bet is called by EP1 and raised by EP2. Now, the maniac makes it $90 to go. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] At this point, I am about 95% certain that the maniac has a draw. My impression of EP2 was that he was a rather average, somewhat too loose player. Can I fold here? Would anyone cap it?

Hoping that EP2 has two pair instead of a set, I decide to call. EP1 folds, EP2 reraises, and the maniac and I call another bet. The river brings the unhelpful 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. EP2 bets again, the maniac folds his busted draw, and I am facing pot odds of nearly 26 to 1. Anyone save a bet here?

-MJS

DocHollyday · #2 11-19-2003, 11:23 AM

Hi Sykes,

First of all I don't get why you call the guy a maniac? He just seems loose, but far away from being a maniac. However, I'd make it four-bet on the flop, because the flop itself appears dangerous with two spades and also the possibility of a straight draw. So if the blinds and the 'maniac' want to draw, make them pay. The flop is too dangerous for slowplaying your aces.

Turn is a nice card most of the times (apart from if a psycho stayed with pocket 3 -> unlikely). Your bet is pretty automatic and right surely. Ok, the EP2 raise would make me very suspicious and the three-bet would make it tough though for me. The most I fear is two pair. So I'd either fold or cap. It's a difficult situation, I tend release my aces now. However, you called and EP2 reraises again. So you are certainly behind. But meanwhile there are 23 BB in the pot, and with this board you have more or less enough odds for your Ace two outer, so if I'd go that far, I'd call.

Same for the river, if there is the slightest chance EP2 is bluffing, even if it is just 4% chance, you still good to call. So no way in saving a bet here.

Good luck! And how was the result BTW? A set I guess....

Michael J. Sykes · #3 11-20-2003, 08:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
First of all I don't get why you call the guy a maniac? He just seems loose, but far away from being a maniac.

[/ QUOTE ]

I want to play in your games! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Good players would usually see less than 20% of the flops (including the blinds) in somewhat loose-aggressive 10-handed games. This guy played a lot of crapola (usually for a raise) to achieve 75% of flops seen!

[ QUOTE ]
Same for the river, if there is the slightest chance EP2 is bluffing, even if it is just 4% chance, you still good to call. So no way in saving a bet here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the probability of a bluff was less than 4%. However, I also considered the remote possibility that EP2 overplayed AK.

I would like to get a couple more opinions on whether I could have folded the turn and/or river before I post the results.

-MJS

nykenny · #4 11-20-2003, 12:00 PM

the maniac in the pot complicates things. i would tend to be more straight forward and show strength as early as possible to avoid others getting fancy (over-playing their hands) against the maniac which makes them harder to read.

Michael J. Sykes · #5 11-22-2003, 05:50 PM

Interesting point. If I had capped the flop, I may have sacrificed an opportunity to knock out drawing hands with a turn raise. Another argument for capping may be that it could make the turn action easier to interpret. This could be a double-edged sword, however, since the resulting higher pot odds could make it more difficult to get away from my hand. Perhaps a capped flop would have swung my turn decision from a borderline fold to a borderline call.

-MJS

Philuva · #6 11-19-2003, 12:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone save a bet here?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are going to fold, do it on the turn when you are facing 2 more bets against 3 players not closing the action against someone who has come to life when what should be considered a blank comes on the turn.

Do not fold on the river for one bet with no flush or straights possible and you are closing the action.

WyattErb · #7 11-20-2003, 10:44 PM

I would call for sure....i think its very unlikely that he's got 2 pairs, i mean with what did he call all them bets?? K3?? or K9?? ok....99, or 88 is a possibility, too...i actually would put him on 99 or 88?....right?

Michael J. Sykes · #8 11-21-2003, 01:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would call for sure....i think its very unlikely that he's got 2 pairs, i mean with what did he call all them bets??

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the reason I believe I should have folded on the turn. Though it is possible that EP2 limped in with K9s or 98s, I do not think he would have slow-played the flop with these holdings.

I felt anger at the maniac for check-reraising the turn with a draw (IMO), and I am concerned that this may have negatively affected my judgement. Does anyone think that my failure to fold on the turn was a big mistake?

-MJS

WyattErb · #9 11-21-2003, 01:22 AM

ok....thats true, sometimes anger does affect our play...especially when somebody is playing very aggressive! but tell me, how did it end?

Michael J. Sykes · #10 11-22-2003, 05:21 PM

I am inclined to interpret the dearth of responses as evidence that the turn and river presented me with close decisions. However, I sure felt like I had blundered after EP2 showed me his set of nines. Would anybody have saved the river bet? You can get a very nice fruit plate for $30! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

-MJS