Going all-in with AKo preflop

[tvdad]

Rant first, then the question...

I played 5 single table NL hold'em tourneys ($10 and $20) at Paradise tonight. Made the final 4 every time (top 3 get paid) and went all-in preflop with AKo each time. That in itself is pretty rare, but let's continue. All 5 times I was called by someone with KX or QX offsuit. All 5 times the X paired and I lost, 3 times I busted out right there and the other 2 got me so short stacked that I was gone the next hand. How the hell does that happen?

Okay, end of rant. My question is, at the end of these tourneys the blinds are so high that almost any hand you play is going to be all-in for somebody. so how do you play AKo preflop? If I'm the short stack, I push all-in no matter what (didn't work so well tonight, but that's what I do.) If I'm the chip leader, I raise enough to put the short-stack all-in if he calls, and if 2nd or 3rd stack calls I know they're pretty strong. If I'm the 2nd or 3rd size stack, I make a pot size raise and see the flop, allowing me to get out if it looks like disaster has struck.

Any tips on how to play it differently?

T

[SoCalPat]

I keep playing it like you do ... unless the 2nd-biggest stack has yet to act and he's in my chip stack range. You're getting players to put all their chips at risk on hands in which they're a sizable, if not huge, underdog. Nothing wrong with that.

Sklansky sez AK plays best when you're first in, and it's all-in. No matter what, you'll see every card ... which sounds simplistic, but is very important with AK, because if you miss the flop, you'll likely have to bail. You'll dominate any non-paired hand, and you'll likely get most small pairs to fold, as well as some bigger ones -- although that's applied best at a full table.

Anecdote: I was playing in a $10 SNG at Paradise once, and on the very first hand, I got AKo in UTG+2. UTG makes a sizable raise (5X BB or so), and, hoping for a chance to double up, go all-in. The CO calls and UTG folds.

CO had KJs, none of us improved and I doubled up.

UTG lets loose on the chat, saying he folded AK too!

[crockpot]

a small raise here makes no sense. if someone else pushes in, you are too deeply committed to fold. if you leave money to bet after the flop, the flop may be tricky to play, and you are giving lesser hands that do not contain an ace or king reasonable odds to call you preflop. the correct play is to just push it in right away to inform the opponents that if they want to play the hand it will cost them everything. this gives you an excellent chance to take the pot down, and you are only significantly behind AA or KK if you are called.

[ohkanada]

If I am going to raise, I normally raise to 3xBB, it that takes up more than 25% then I would raise all-in. With a big stack, I might adjust things a bit to match a smaller stack. But in no case would I just leave myself with a small bet that would always be called on the flop.

Ken Poklitar

[AliasMrJones]

At that point in a tourney, to me you've got 2 choices...Push 'em in pre-flop or fold up and wait for someone to bust. I push 'em in.

If its any consolation, you've built up some might good karma for your next SnG.

[Prickly Pete]

The one thing I'd add to the other posts is that I'd generally make my raise at set amount for the point of the tourney. In other words, if you decide to raise, raise the same amount every time whether it's AK or 32.

[CrisBrown]

tvdad,

I think you did the right thing at this point in the tournament. You have a very strong semi-bluff hand, and with the high blinds and tight play that generally prevail near the end of a tournament, the rule is that you bluff and semi-bluff more, and bet for value less. Moving in on AK (suited or off) is the right move here. Sorry about the bad beats.

Cris

P.S. The reason you bet for value less when the table is tight is that, with the play so tight, if anyone calls you they're almost certain to have a good hand. So you don't bet for value unless you're reasonably sure you have the hand locked up.

[tvdad]

Here's my thinking process in one situation when I might make a smaller raise rather than push all-in with the AK:

Down to the final 4, top 3 get paid. Blinds are T250/500. Before the deal I've got T2500 UTG, next guy has T3500, SB has T3000, and BB has T1000. If I go all-in with the AK, the top 2 stacks are probably only going to call with a pair. I just don't think too many people in the 1st and 2nd chip positions would risk that much of their stack on anything else. The small-stacked BB, with half his chips in the pot already, will likely call with any reasonable cards, but he might fold if someone reraises me, trying to slip into the money. Do I want to get all my chips in on what is basically a 50/50 shot at the pot against a pair?

The flaw here is if those 1st and 2nd chip position players would call my all-in with something other than a pair. AQ, AJ, AXs, etc. But I just don't think those calls happen often enough.

Moving on. If I bet T1500 instead of pushing all-in, then I would have a chance to fold if the 1st or 2nd position player moves over the top of me and the BB calls. Why would I call here, even with AK, if the BB might be taken out? Or should I call specifically to try to gang up on the BB? I realize if I fold I'm down to T1000 and the blinds are about to hit me... I don't know. That's why I'm asking here. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[t_perkin]

First of all I am assuming that you mean that the small stack has T1000 *including* the BB that he has posted - because that is the way your post reads to be - but I am not sure...

You would be looking to steal the blinds here - moving all-in would almost certainly lead to a fold from the bigger two stacks, unless they had high PPs like say JJ or above. Even then you are in a coin flip against 66% of these hands (remember you hold one A and one K).

AK is the hand you want to see all the board cards with so you move in with it. Why do you want to let yourself be played out of the hand by putting in a raise that can be reraised by one of the other stacks forcing you to tough decision?
You should not be disappointed if the small stack calls, you are highly likely to win the hand, which if you do makes you chip leader. And if you don´t you are not out of the game.


Moving on. If I bet T1500 instead of pushing all-in, then I would have a chance to fold if the 1st or 2nd position player moves over the top of me and the BB calls. Why would I call here, even with AK, if the BB might be taken out? Or should I call specifically to try to gang up on the BB? I realize if I fold I'm down to T1000 and the blinds are about to hit me... I don't know.


Remember if you, the bigger stack and the smaller stack all move in, then the only time you will be busted out and get nothing is if the small stack has the best hand and the big stack has the next best and you have the worst.
If the big stack has the best hand then you get third place winnings - even if the small stack has a better hand than you.
If you have the best hand then you have busted out the small stack and the big stack is looking pretty near deaths door too.

If you make a bet, the big stack raises and the small stack folds this is a very different matter - now you are in a very difficult sitaution.

Overall - I think you just have to go all in and take your chances.

hope this helps

Tim

[tvdad]

[ QUOTE ]
First of all I am assuming that you mean that the small stack has T1000 *including* the BB that he has posted

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I meant that the BB had T1000 before the hand was dealt. He had to put T500 (half his stack) in as the BB, so he would be more inclined to play weaker hands. I'm not too worried about him, but if he does make a hand and I lose while all-in to one of the bigger stacks, I'm out of the money.

As you said, the only way the bigger stacks will likely call my all-in is with a big pair. But isn't it also likely that will be the case if I simply make a pot sized raise? Sure they might call with AK, AQ, AJ, AXs, or a smaller pair, but in that case am I really any worse off than if I'm all-in with AK against a pair? I can check to the big stack and fold if he bets. Of course I'm assuming he can beat the all-in BB. If not, I'm down to T1000 and the previously short stacked BB is up to T3000 and the big stack is down T1000 from where he was. Isn't that still okay for me?

Maybe I'm being way too cautious trying not to get shut out of the money. But that's only because I've finished one spot out a lot lately. I'm usually a lot more aggressive, which tends to result in first place or fourth. I'm okay with that until I hit a bad streak, then I just want to get into the money.

T