Help needed, I'm getting killed.

PokerNoob · #1 10-23-2003, 02:27 PM

Playing party .5/1 and I'm down about 100 BB's this week. I don't know if its a run of spectacularly bad cards, my draws never coming and being rivered time and time again by aquatic denizens without the proper odds to chase or just a lot of bad play on my part. I've gotten tentative too, which can't help. Please critique some hands, particularly in regards to drawing odds.

Hand 1 I'm UTG+1 and dealt K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] at a mildly aggressive but calling station populated table. UTG limps, I limp, MP limps, LMP raises, folded around, UTG and I call, MP folds. LMP has been pf raising with almost anything, it is difficult to give his raise much respect. 6.75 small bets in the pot.

Flop: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

UTG bets in the face of the PF raiser. I put him on Jacks or a slight possibility of a diamond flush draw. I consider my overcards good and add an out for the backdoors. 7 outs and 7.25 small bets in the pot. I call and sure enough pf raiser raises. We both call. 6.5 BBs.

Turn: A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

My overcards could now be drawing dead, but I have the backdoor straight. Checked to the raiser who bets, UTG calls. 8.5 bets in and a bet to me. I reach deep into the implied odds bag and come up with enough for a call feeling I could checkraise the river and one or both would come along. Unfortunately another Ace hits. Check, check, bet, call, and I fold. The pf raiser shows pocket eights for the flopped set and rivered boat. The other guy had a suited Jack Ten.

Hand 2 I'm in the BB and am dealt 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG bad player open raises, gets two MP callers. 7.25 small bets to me. Do I go? Yes. Was that proper or am I tilting? All else fold, 7.5 sb in pot.

Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Great, another gutshot, backdoor, tiny pair. I count 6 outs. PF raiser checks (par for the course at this table), checked around to LMP who bets, I call, PF raiser calls, other MP folds. 10.5 sb's in pot.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Now I have a double gutshot. Checked to LMP who bets, all call. 8 big bets in.

River is the 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Check, check, bet, I fold, call. Preflop raiser had pocket tens, other guy wins with an AKo in the hole.

Hand 3 I'm in small blind and am dealt KJo. MP and button limp. I limp. Is this a raise? My flopped pair of jacks wins unimproved although a queen hits the river. Limpers call me down all the way. BB folded after flop.

Hand 4 I'm in cutoff and am dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Two MP limpers to me, I limp, button limps, blinds go along for the ride. 6 small bets in.

Flop: 8 4 T rainbow.

Blinds checkfold, the rest of us go with MP's bet, me playing my overcards and backdoor straight. 10 small bets in pot.

Turn: another 8. MP bets out. LMP calls. Six big bets are in and I have six tentative outs. I fold. Button goes all in for half a bet.

River is a king, MP bets out and LMP folds. Kings and board eights would have been good over MP's T4o hole cards.

Last hand Six man table. I am dealt 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG limps, next man folds, I fold. Flop contains a king and a 9. Flop is raised by some dimbulb playing a 24s with a threeflush and gets two callers. River is another king and my hand was the nuts.

rkiray · #2 10-23-2003, 02:34 PM

Looks to me like you turn a straight in Hand 2 (you flopped oesd, not gutshot), so you need to either fix the post or learn to read the board.

Eihli · #3 10-23-2003, 02:36 PM

Hand 1 I would have folded on the flop since there is a raiser to act behind you, and your backdoor flush is weak.

Hand 2 I guess is a mistype, because it reads as you hitting your open ended straight on the turn.

Hand 3 Good, I wouldn't raise PF here. You have a chance to see the flop cheaply with a marginal hand, why ruin it?

Hand 4 I might have folded on the flop. Is this too tight? Other than that I would have played it the same way. Screw that K that hit on the river. Don't be results oriented like that.

Hand 5 I don't play much shorthanded but it looks like a good fold to me. You're just being results oriented again.

All-in-all I think you are chasing way to many hands. Backdoors hit very rarely and shouldn't be counted as outs you have. They should only be used when they can make a marginal situation playable.

Mike Gallo · #4 10-23-2003, 02:41 PM

Noob,

I think you made a mistake with the posting of hand 2.

You turned a straight. You had 5 6 and the board shows
A 4 3 7 3. You do have a paired board and a three flush to contend with, however if AK won the hand, you have some issues with Party Poker.

I do not have anything constructive to say about the other hands.

rkiray · #5 10-23-2003, 02:42 PM

Hand 1 : [ QUOTE ]
I reach deep into the implied odds bag and come up with enough for a call feeling I could checkraise the river and one or both would come along

[/ QUOTE ]

Thinking like this very bad when you are running bad. You should be playing more conservative. Not desperatly looking for reasons to call.

Hand 3 : I wouldn't even think about raising with KJo out of position against three opponents.

Hand 4 : You played fine, this happens in poker all the time. Don't be results oriented.

Last hand : Same as above. Although in a six handed game K9 is much more valuable than a full ring. So it's close.

MaxPower · #6 10-23-2003, 02:52 PM

Hand 1

On the flop you are between the bettor and the pre-flop raiser. Even with your backdoor draws and overcards you should fold. The problem is your position. You don't know how many bets it is going to cost you. Your overcard outs are tainted and if the bettor does have a flush draw it is likely Ace high.

Hand 2

I think you have a typo here. That should be a 2 on the flop? Similar situation to hand 1, a fold wouldn't be bad, but if your sure it won't be check-raised calling 1 is OK.

Hand 3 - Good

Hand 4

A pre-flop raise against two limpers would be good. Try to buy the button. After that it is OK. I'm not sure about your flop call.

Hand 5 - good fold.

Lost Wages · #7 10-23-2003, 03:05 PM

Hand 1)
Anytime there is someone to act after you, you must devalue the odds you are getting since they may raise. This is especially true when the preflop raiser has yet to act. Folding is your best option here with raising second and calling a distant third.

On the turn you should check-fold. A T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] puts a flush on the board so it won't always be an out. So say on average you have 3.5 outs so you need about 12:1. It is a little optimistic to think you will collect an average of 4 bets when you make your hand.

Hand 2)
See other replies

Hand 3)
This is not a raise. If cutoff or button open limp then it would be OK.

Hand 4)
If you are going to play you should raise the flop to:
a) try to buy the button.
b) limit the field to increase the chances your overcards will be good.
c) set yourself up for a freecard if you need it.

Good fold on the turn. It is almost never correct to draw to just overcards on the turn in a multiway pot.

Hand 5)
6 handed is not my game but K9o sounds borderline after a UTG limp.

Lost Wages

Kurn, son of Mogh · #8 10-23-2003, 03:06 PM

hand 1:

I reach deep into the implied odds bag and come up with enough for a call

Stop looking for reasons to call. Look for reasons to fold.

Hand 2: Sure looks to me like you turned a str8 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hand 4: raise preflop. get those blinds out if you can.

PokerNoob · #9 10-23-2003, 03:43 PM

Yeah, I goofed on Hand 2. It wasn't 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], it was 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I can't even read or type anymore. I appreciate all the comments though.

I guess I need to post in the psychology forum. The zigging and zagging between tight and loose is killing me. I tighten up to see monster flops I would have usually played and I loosen up to never quite make that draw. Add in the healthy dose of getting premium starting hands continually cracked and its enough to drive you nuts.

Mike Gallo · #10 10-23-2003, 03:49 PM

PokerNoob,

Play solid poker. Play tight preflop. Do not worry about folding 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and the flop coming 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Do not let that sway your starting hand selection.

Play solid disciplined aggressive poker. Act as the raiser not the Penguin who cold calls raises and prays for the flop to hit them. Leave that for the gamblers.

Ok, I have to step off my soap box [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

I cannot emphasize that enough, so I will type it again, play solid disciplined aggressive poker.