O8: (mis)playing suited A or A2

[tvdad]

Is it wise to play A2 or a suited A when the other two cards are rags? I'm talking about hands like AT92 rainbow where the only real hope is to hit the A2 for low, and AT86 with the A suited.

I usually muck these types of hands in early position, but I will limp in late if there are a few players already in. I don't like to play these drawing hands against just one or two opponents, or if there's some mad preflop raising going on. I know some people like to always play A2 and suited A regardless of the other two cards, but after losing 25 consecutive low attempts with A2xx (where x is not a wheel card) a few weeks ago I decided maybe I should toss that strategy for a while. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Assuming you're in with a hand like that, when do you abandon it? If the flop barely hits you (there's only one unmatched low card or one flush card, so you need runner-runner), how many opponents would you need to chase it?

T

[chaos]

Naked A2 nonsuited:

I will fold this hand from early position unless the game is very passive and loose. I will also fold it to a raise figuring the chances are very high that I'm playing only for a quarter of the pot. In late position I'll call a single bet no matter how many players have come in.

Suited A:
If the only strength of your hand is a suited Ace, it is a clear fold in any position. The object of the game is to scoop the pot. The most likely chance for you to scoop with a hand like this is to flop a flush draw and then complete the flush without a low being made. (I'm assuming a typical loose, low-limit game.) The chance of making your flush is under 10%. But even if you make it, the board may pair enabling someone to beat the nut flush. Plus the board will permit a low about 70% of the time (if my memory serves correctly). Combining these factors I would say that you will make the nut high with your flush and there will be no low possible about 1 or 2% of the time. Clearly it is not worth it on the stregth of a suited Ace alone. Of course any hand can make a monster like quads or a full house. But the probability of that happening is small.

The above is only my opinion. The probabilities are only apporximate but I believe them to be fairly accurate. I have some calculations at home that I could dig out on the probabilities of completing flushes if you would like the exact figures. (Or maybe Buzz will come along and provide them.)

[bugstud]

I'll play stuff like suited A45x in more passive games, the aggressive games the suited aces don't help nearly as much. Just remember position coupled with the texture of the aggression of the game dictates what you play. If everyone pays off with second nut lows you should play all A2's, etc etc

[crockpot]

AT86 is a terrible hand. you are not going to win low with it, and as for its high value, i wouldn't even play the hand in omaha high.

any A2 is playable in a loose game, but if you play hands like AT86 you will go broke in the long run. you could replace the ten with a four and i would still muck the hand.

as for backdoor low draws, you would do well to never chase them unless your hand has other outs, such as a backdoor nut flush draw or gutshot draw to a broadway straight. then you might play for one bet.

check my website for a beginner's guide to omaha.

[Buzz]

"Is it wise to play A2 or a suited A when the other two cards are rags? I'm talking about hands like AT92 rainbow where the only real hope is to hit the A2 for low, and AT86 with the A suited."

TV Dad - The answer is not yes or no, in my humble opinion. I wish it was that simple, but it’s not.

The playability of either hand depends on how much you stand to win when you do win compared to what it will cost you to play. In the games in which I normally play, AT92n seems marginal as a starting hand at a full table and AT86s seems sub-marginal.

Accordingly, in one of these normal games (for me) I’d play the AT92n the same way I play marginal hands, sometimes folding and sometimes playing, depending on various factors including position. Similarly, I’d play AT86s the same way I play sub-marginal hands, generally mucking it.

However, I can visualize a game situation with loose and gullible opponents where AT92n would not be marginal and where AT86s would not be sub-marginal.

And there’s another consideration. You don't play each hand in a vacuum.

For example, in a typical game in which I am seated, I’d probably defend my big blind with AT86s - but that would not be because of the inherent value of a suited ace. Under other circumstances, in games where somebody always raised before the flop and an average of three opponents saw the flop, I wouldn’t bother defending.

Buzz

[Lou Krieger]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it wise to play A2 or a suited A when the other two cards are rags? I'm talking about hands like AT92 rainbow where the only real hope is to hit the A2 for low, and AT86 with the A suited.

[/ QUOTE ]

A naked A-2 is really playable for one bet only, so it ought to be played from late position, or in a game in which raising is very infrequent. A hand like A-T-8-6 doesn't stand much of a chance of scooping the pot unless you catch a really perfect flop, and if you do, you probably won't get much action from your opponents.

The trouble with a naked A-2, of course, is that you might get yoruself quartered in a big pot and not win much of anything, or else get yourself counterfeited and lose it all.
_____
Lou Krieger
Raise your game with Lou Krieger, author of "Poker For Dummies," at Royal Vegas Poker.
http://www.royalvegaspoker.com/lou

[Mason Malmuth]

In games where many players are playing less than premium hands, and most low limit games are like this, any A2 should be playable.

MM

[iblucky4u2]

Normally I like to be a contrarian, but I've got to agree with the expert here. ANY A2 is worth playing in these low limit games. Yes, you get 1/4 sometimes, but with 4+ players that's still a good result. It's amazing how many times the flop comes 378 and those A4, 24 and even A5 don't believe you have A2 and will pay off. More often than getting 1/4, you wind up with 1/2 with 5+ callers. That doesn't count the infrequent A's full or other magic flop for a scoop. IMHO A2 in these games is a +EV.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi iblucky4u2:

It's always amazed me how so many of these writers give advice that is much too weak tight. My guess is that they have very little experience playing or just don't understand very well the games that they are trying to write about. This looks like another example.

On the other hand, once you get into games a little bigger or just happen to be in a game where a few people know something about how to play, folding a dry ace-deuce from up front can only be a very small error at most.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Schmed]

What about in a raised pot? If you're in a later or even a mid position and it's 2 bets to you. Doesn't that naked A2 lose a lot of it's punch because now you are most likely up against someone who can counterfeit you with an A2 3 or 4?

This question posted above is a very good question that I was wondering today myself.

As always thanks for everything Mason, been a winning poker player for over 6 months of the 10 months I have been playing because of the info you guys put out...... and this forum.