AA

michfan · #1 10-08-2003, 10:21 AM

1/2 table at pokerroom last night. The table is loose passive preflop and aggressive post flop.

I Have AA in MP. 2 limpers to me. Raises have not been folding many people preflop so I limp. 7 people see the flop for 1 bet each

Flop is 889 rainbow. EP bets, I raise, LP raises, everyone else folds. LP and myself cap it and EP calling station comes along for the ride. I put EP on a small pocket pair and LP on 9 10 or 10 J

Turn is 8. Myself and LP cap it and again EP comes along for the ride.

River is a 2. I bet, LP raises, I 3 bet and LP only calls. Now I know I have the best hand and of course EP comes along for 3.

I win $58 and the other 2 muck.

Was I too aggressive?

Was limping pre flop incorrect?

stantheman · #2 10-08-2003, 10:25 AM

I always raise AA preflop. Whether or not the raise will fold anyone, you are getting more $ into the pot when you have the best hand. Don't give them a chance to limp in with their trash and catch a lucky flop.

Aces McGee · #3 10-08-2003, 10:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I Have AA in MP. 2 limpers to me. Raises have not been folding many people preflop so I limp. 7 people see the flop for 1 bet each

[/ QUOTE ]

Ack! You don't raise with pocket rockets preflop to get people OUT, you do it to make them pay you more money, since you have the best hand. Limping with AA at a low-limit full table should be reserved for those occasions when you expect a raise behind you, so you can re-raise.

Given that you limped, I don't think you were too aggressive.

Aces McGee

hockey1 · #4 10-08-2003, 10:41 AM

I don't like the way you played this at all. You MUST raise preflop in a game where people aren't folding. Your analysis for the preflop limp gets it backwards.

I like your initial aggression on the flop, but capping the flop is questionable. Capping the turn against 2 opponents to me seems maniacal. You've got to assume that if either opponent had JJ-AA they'd have raised preflop. So you have to ask yourself: "self, are they really re-raising me -- again -- or calling 2 cold, with anything less than a set?" It's tough to believe that one of them doesn't have an 8, espcially in light of the fact that there were 7 to the flop. Do you think they're both on straight draws? I'd go into check-call mode after getting raised on the turn.

rkiray · #5 10-08-2003, 10:46 AM

It is basically always correct to ram and jam with AA. There are only two reasons I wouldn't raise or reraise, and they both involve deception. If based on the action and the players, I'm sure someone else is going to cap it for me, I'd just call. For example, An aggresive EP raises, another EP reraises, I'm in MP and there are several aggresive players yet to act, I might call. Or if three people in front me have all raised. The other time is I would very rarely just call if I'm in a game with lots of people who I've played against many times and know me well, I might just call. But this is only to keep my play from being too predicable. In most low limit games this play is not necessary. But at Paradise in 2/4 games and higher where many people keep good notes and use databases, it is an occasional good play when you recognize many of the screen names, but only occasionally.

lil' · #6 10-08-2003, 11:01 AM

Post-flop you played like a stud. Nice.

Pre flop you are making a huge error.
I Have AA in MP. 2 limpers to me. Raises have not been folding many people preflop so I limp.
Why would you want people to fold when you hold the best possible hand?

hockey1 · #7 10-08-2003, 11:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Post-flop you played like a stud. Nice.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm all for plenty of aggression, but I think sometimes the testosterone on this site dulls the common sense. A pair of aces just is not THAT strong a hand, unimproved, when there were 7 opponents preflop, in a low-limit on-line game. People will play anything. Hero could easily be up against 2 pair or a set. He's tested the waters, capped the flop, and somebody keeps re-raising him. This means either that SOMEBODY's got something big or he's a maniac. The post said nothing about somebody being a maniac . . . There comes a point when it makes sense to slow down -- and that point is when you get raised on the turn after capping the flop.

Of course, this would've been much easier to play if you'd have just raised preflop.

lil' · #8 10-08-2003, 11:22 AM

I probably would not have raised the river.

I mainly just wanted to point out that his post-flop aggression stands in stark contrast to the pre-flop wimpiness.

hockey1 · #9 10-08-2003, 11:28 AM

I definitely agree with you there!

Aces McGee · #10 10-08-2003, 11:50 AM

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Do you think they're both on straight draws?

[/ QUOTE ]

A straight draw is a dangerous hand to have at the turn here, given that the board has tripped up. I don't imagine that either has one.

I think it's a lot more likely that they both have nines than it is that one of them holds the case 8. I am consistently amazed at what some people will keep on raising with. I played a $2/$4 hand at Foxwoods where I raised pocket jacks preflop, and the flop came J22. Turn was another 2, and I CAPPED it and the river A with an older guy who showed down...99. A younger dude FINALLY mucked on the first river raise and later claimed he was holding the case jack.

At the pokerroom.com $1/$2, someone is going to have to SHOW me the case 8 here for me to believe he has it.

Aces McGee