Bet This River?

SoBeDude · #1 10-07-2003, 08:54 AM

As I struggle to improve my game, I find river bets to be an area of continual weakness.

15-30 online game usual suspects of decent and loose players.

I'm in the BB, get dealt J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

UTG open raises, all fold to me. I think for a second and decice to call. This is player who's early raises I respect, but being halfway in and HU I decided to see a flop.

Flop comes: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

So I have top pair, strong kicker. I want to see where I stand with this hand, so I check knowing he'll bet anything here. I check-raise, he 3 bets. I'm behind to AJ, JJ, QQ, KK, AA, but ahead of AK and AQ. Additionally he would 3 bet me here with a big flush draw. I think about folding but decide to see the turn.

Turn brings the K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I'm pretty certain I'm in the lead now with top two. I check and once again he bets, I check-raise him again, and he calls.

River brings the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Now I'm behind to AA, AJ, and AK. I think JJ and KK are out as surely he would have raised me on the turn with either holding.

I bet out.

My friend says with the ace falling I should have checked the river and called any bet.

How is my play?

Thanks

-Scott

Buckshot · #2 10-07-2003, 09:12 AM

I would likely check and call even though you can beat QQ, AQ, TT, AT and some other suited hands that could be raised UTG. If you bet the end and get raised you find yourself wishing you hadn't bet in the first place especially after you're shown AJ.

~stephen

SoBeDude · #3 10-07-2003, 09:16 AM

I've check-raised him twice and bet out on the river. Do you really think he'll 3-bet me here without a set?

-Scott

Ed Miller · #4 10-07-2003, 09:38 AM

If you respect this guy's UTG raise, then your KJo, headsup and out of position, should be mucked without a moment's thought.

Aces McGee · #5 10-07-2003, 09:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So I have top pair, strong kicker. I want to see where I stand with this hand, so I check knowing he'll bet anything here. I check-raise, he 3 bets. I'm behind to AJ, JJ, QQ, KK, AA, but ahead of AK and AQ. Additionally he would 3 bet me here with a big flush draw. I think about folding but decide to see the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Forgive me, SoBeDude, but I have a question:

If he 3-bets you and you can't decide if he is ahead of you or is on a flush draw, have you really accomplished "seeing where I stand?"

Aces McGee

Buckshot · #6 10-07-2003, 11:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I've check-raised him twice and bet out on the river. Do you really think he'll 3-bet me here without a set?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand. If you're talking the river then he can't 3-bet you, he can only raise, but yes, if he's got top two or more he can certainly raise.

~stephen

Coilean · #7 10-07-2003, 12:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
As I struggle to improve my game, I find river bets to be an area of continual weakness.

[/ QUOTE ]
Betting too much, not enough, or both? I think most otherwise strong players don't value bet the river enough against players who can be easily read for 1 pair hands. Everyone knows how uncomfortable it is to be facing a river bet with an unimproved big ace or weak pair hand, and how easy it is to justify a call, so you should endeavor to put your opponents into this situation as often as possible when it looks reasonably likely your pair is best. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

In this hand however, the ace on the river makes your opponent fairly unlikely to have a 1 pair hand he likes. If you bet, you may get a crying call from QQ AQ or AT (and unless this opponent can be a bit loose aggressive at times, these hands should be less likely than the hands that now beat you), or face a raise from AA AK or AJ. This is an easy bet if you can safely fold to a raise and would call a bet anyway (which is almost a freeroll at 1 bet unless opponent will check some hands that beat you), but I don't trust many opponents enough to fold 2 pair heads up, and that ace put several of the hands you were hoping to face ahead of you. I'm inclined to check call and hope for the best, but I think it's quite close.

Ulysses · #8 10-07-2003, 01:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I've check-raised him twice and bet out on the river. Do you really think he'll 3-bet me here without a set?

[/ QUOTE ]

In his position, you wouldn't raise the river w/ AJ or AK? I would.

As for your river bet, I think it's close. It partly depends on whether or not you're going to call a raise.

More importantly, you should definitely be mucking this preflop vs. someone whose UTG raises you respect.

rigoletto · #9 10-07-2003, 02:22 PM

Preflop: If you really respect UTG's raises it's a clear fold.

Flop: Didn't you get your information, get out. I prefer betting the flop here - the checkraise/calling a 3-bet just ties you to the pot

Turn: fine

River: I think the bet here is fine if you are able to fold to a raise (I asume from you respect comment that UTG is a solid player. I also asume that he respects your raises). If you have the best hand he'll likely check behind if checked to and almost never raise if bet into. If he has the best hand he'll either call or raise and I think a raise means at least A's over and you can safely fold.

hutz · #10 10-07-2003, 03:20 PM

Add me to the growing "muck it pre-flop" list.