KK preflop smoothcall.

1800GAMBLER · #1 10-04-2003, 10:30 AM

Early level of a tournment, details aren't really important.

I have T1300 average is T1800. Blinds are 15/30.

I raise to 3 times the blinds UTG+1 with KK. Next calls, all fold to the SB who makes it T500 just 3rd of his stack. I know the UTG+2 will fold to this raise.

I smoothcall.

Flop:

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

He goes all in. I fold.

Comments:

I like my smoothcall, i don't think his raise commits him to his hand and he'll be able to throw AJs AQ, 99 TT. Meanwhile i get to dominate AK QQ which he'll call with.

Plus AA just beats me up. If he has AK 1 in 4 times i'm leaving his tournment right here too.

I also like it due to the pot size he'll lead out if he misses, putting me on a weaker hand than his.

I'm also a big fan of seeing a flop.

The fold was easy since i only have hope of QQ.

Comments?

1800GAMBLER · #2 10-04-2003, 10:32 AM

Arguement could be made for me being happy that he'll throw AQ AJ etc and taking the pot right there.

Comments?

Brian · #3 10-05-2003, 03:28 AM

Hi JayP,

I am relatively new to tournaments, so take my advice with a grain of salt [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] However, I am curious about some of the details. That is, what was the buy-in and/or how good were your opponents? The worse they are (or the lower the buy-in, same thing), the more I would be tempted to go all-in here. That is, I wouldn't expect them to fold a hand like QQ, JJ, TT, or any good Ace here, especially not after raising 1/3rd of their stack. In fact, I'd say it's a rare opponent who will raise that high this early on and not call an all-in. Another detail which would impact my decision here would be whether it's a 1 table, 2 table, or multi-table tournament, although I still think I would all-in here no matter which it was.

Another reason I would all-in here is that KK is a difficult hand to play in no-limit when the Ace Flops. In fact, that would be my MAIN reason for going all-in; I wouldn't want to be put in a position where I am bluffed out when an Ace hits.

Another thing to consider. You say that sometimes your opponent will have AK here and you'll be leaving the tournament 1 in 4 times when he does. If I have T1300, and just committed about 100 more chips to the pot, when I am facing a raise for what is almost 1/2 my stack, I would say if I call and lose I have pretty much almost left the tournament right there. Yes yes, a chip and a chair, and you have plenty to come back with, I know, but that's a pretty awful start to a tournament. I think that re-raising all-in is a much better play here than flat calling just because of stack sizes alone.

The AA argument is pretty much a flawed one. Obviously if you ever put your opponent on AA pre-Flop, then it is correct to fold. But if you go around all the time worried about AA, you are going to miss a lot of opportunities IMO. Sometimes you'll get KK and your opponent will get AA; it happens to the best of us. But playing like a panzy will lose you more chips overall than the few times you get busted by it IMO.

I could probably think of a few other reasons to all-in here pre-Flop, but I am more interested in what others have to say.

-Brian

Yeknom58 · #4 10-05-2003, 03:56 AM

The fact that he gets to see a flop with hands like AQ, AJ, A10 are exactly the reasons why you should raise him all in.
First off your raise of 90 was way too small. I'm thinking you open for at least 200-300 at this level. With your raise being only 90 chips his re-raise to 500 could mean a range of hands, AA, KK, QQ, med PP, AK-AJ. With that in mind I would go all in. The pot is already over 600 so you should be happy to win the pot right there.

Whitey · #5 10-05-2003, 06:35 AM

You have to think what hands he would raise such a large amount with.Most people will only put a substantial raise in with a pocket pair or AK.

With you holding KK, AK is improbable and I would definatly be re-raising.If you run into aces then you just have to hold your hands up and say its unlucky.

By playing the way you did you allowed him to represent the only card you didnt want to see when it shows up

With KK Im always looking to get all my money in pre flop if I get the opportunity

LDJ · #6 10-05-2003, 10:58 AM

I would smooth call only with limpers. With the pre-flop raise you have to think high PP or Ax; and x being a K or Q. He's hoping to take the pot pre-flop, and you reeally want to make him think about seeing the flop. The only way to that that is going all-in.

1800GAMBLER · #7 10-05-2003, 01:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Another reason I would all-in here is that KK is a difficult hand to play in no-limit when the Ace Flops. In fact, that would be my MAIN reason for going all-in; I wouldn't want to be put in a position where I am bluffed out when an Ace hits.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against a preflop reraise and a flop bet KK becomes pretty easy to play.

[ QUOTE ]
The AA argument is pretty much a flawed one. Obviously if you ever put your opponent on AA pre-Flop, then it is correct to fold. But if you go around all the time worried about AA, you are going to miss a lot of opportunities IMO. Sometimes you'll get KK and your opponent will get AA; it happens to the best of us. But playing like a panzy will lose you more chips overall than the few times you get busted by it IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't fear AA i merely put it in the list of hands he could hold in that situation and wouldn't fold.

1800GAMBLER · #8 10-05-2003, 01:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The fact that he gets to see a flop with hands like AQ, AJ, A10 are exactly the reasons why you should raise him all in.
First off your raise of 90 was way too small. I'm thinking you open for at least 200-300 at this level. With your raise being only 90 chips his re-raise to 500 could mean a range of hands, AA, KK, QQ, med PP, AK-AJ. With that in mind I would go all in. The pot is already over 600 so you should be happy to win the pot right there.

[/ QUOTE ]

On a TAG game i'm not happy to take the blinds with KK. Which a raise that size would have done, i can do that with 23o.

I'm interested in hearing your logic as to why i would want to take the pot right now.

1800GAMBLER · #9 10-05-2003, 01:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would smooth call only with limpers.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's badwards logic.

With limpers in i want their A trash out. With only 1 player in who will be the aggressor on the flop regardless of cards after i smooth call i'm happy to make that play.

Yeknom58 · #10 10-05-2003, 03:53 PM

I meant take the raised pot of 600 not just the blinds. In either case you should be making a larger raise than 90 and if you take the blind hey that's life, at least you lessen the chance of you being beat by crap. In a loose game a bigger raise in more necessary because you need to properly charge the drawing hands.