Help with low-mid Pocket Pairs?

stantheman · #1 10-02-2003, 09:42 AM

Hi, Beginning player with a big problem in deciding how to play low to mid pocket pairs. Here are two hands from last night (UB $1/$2), please tell me what I did wrong.

Hand #1:

Dealt 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in MP

2 callers before me, I call, CO calls, button calls, SB completes and BB calls. 7 players.

Flop comes J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Check, check, check, EP bets, I raise, all fold except for original better, who calls.

Turn is 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

He checks, I bet, he calls.

River is 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

He checks, I bet, he folds.

Did I go too fast? Could I have gotten more out of the pot if I played my set slower? Or is that the best I could have done?

Hand #2:

Dealt J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in SB

UTG calls, call, call, fold, call, button folds, I raise, everyone calls. 6 players.

Flop comes 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I bet, call, call, call, call, fold.

Turn is 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I bet, fold, call, call call.

River is 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet, call, fold, RAISE, I call, call.

Much to my chagrin, raiser turns over Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] for his trips. I lose.

Is there anything I could have done? I tried to play as fast as I could, was there an opportunity to check raise that I missed?

Any help is appreciated, I feel like I'm picking up the game fairly quickly but these pocket pairs are especially frustrating. Thanks. Stan

NoChance · #2 10-02-2003, 10:00 AM

Hand 1 you played just fine. He was probably on a flush draw. If you don't bet like that then you are giving him a cheap price to try and make his hand.

For what it's worth, I think I would have played hand 2 the way way also, possibly even raised the river. I would have lost more than you did.

Dentist · #3 10-02-2003, 10:38 AM

stan, i hear you on this problem.....

you played the two's well. If there's anything I didn't like, it's that I probably wouldn't have played the 2's in the first place..... but many others would disagree with me on that.

As for the jacks... Yeah, this is just a classic bad beat story...

You see some of the weirdest crap win...
I always ask myself what in the world are they raising with, and remembering that a big pair is still just ONE pair, most fish won't raise on the end with only holding one pair, they'll just call.
Since he caught runner-runner 3's, that's harder to pick up, but most of the time when I have big pocket pairs like AA through JJ, if I'm either re-raised on the flop, or raised on the turn, most of the time I'm no good, but I have a damn hard time laying it down.

I keep thinking of Sklansky's artical on the eight mistakes in poker and how not calling on the end allows you the oppourtunity to make a huge mistake if the pot is decent size and you are folding a lot here... one bet mistake for a multiple bet disaster...

However, I feel like I've turned into a calling station on 4th and 5th streets with these pocket pairs, or top pair good kicker.....

NoChance · #4 10-02-2003, 11:30 AM

I agree with that. I keep betting until I meet resistance. If it is on the turn and you know your opponent, a fold may be correct. If it is on the river then it should be a call or reraise. It isn't always easy.

stantheman · #5 10-02-2003, 11:43 AM

Thanks for the input guys. I agree, I find it SO hard to fold those big pocket pairs. They come around so infrequently, I almost feel as if I'm OWED a victory when I'm finally dealt them. I guess that's one of the feelings I'll have to work on if I'm ever going to make it in this game. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

PlayerA · #6 10-02-2003, 01:25 PM

Hand 1 is fine if you're going to play 22 in MP (which I usually do not).

On hand 2, I would not raise JJ in SB with so many already in. JJ is not a great hand to begin with. Any A,Q,K comes and you won't like it. I would try to check-raise on the flop to hopefully thin the field. The problem is that the pot got so big that any clown draws are getting good odds. You basically have only 2 cards that improve your hand.

Sarge85 · #7 10-02-2003, 03:18 PM

Looks like you played both just fine. Hand Two I'm sure you knew what he had - just one of those things.....

My thought on small-med pocket pairs. Get to the flop as cheaply as possible with them. If you miss your set, get ready to abandom them. Raerly is it worth it to chase 22-99 to the river if you don't flop your set.

10s-AA are diferent stories and like anything else - Depends.

Sarge [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

crockpot · #8 10-02-2003, 06:50 PM

you played the set perfectly in hand 1.

hand 2, i like a limp preflop out of position in a multiway pot with jacks. if you raise in a six way pot, you're increasing the size of the pot to encourage people even more to chase overcards, and making it harder to check raise if you do flop an overpair, which is my preferred way to play the hand.

Kurn, son of Mogh · #9 10-03-2003, 08:54 AM

You played both hands fine. And BTW, remember the Q3s guy. Any guy who'll play a San Francisco Busboy(suited or not) to the turn with just an overcard and backdoor flush draw and call to see the river with bottom pair is a guy you want at your table.

stantheman · #10 10-03-2003, 09:18 AM

Thanks for the advice all. Of course, I got pocket QQ broken by 78o again last night, but at least I know I'm playing these correctly. That'll do for now. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]