NLH Tourney Hand Analysis - AQo in first postition

[spoody]

I posted this on RGP and got only one real response, and a few nasty responses with no help....Hopefully someone will have some good advice for me. I do believe I made a poor preflop raise, but I would like to hear advice on this hand.

I have t7500 (2nd chip postition at my table), Blinds are 600-300. I am in first position and pick up AQo.

questions about the hand...

I raise 2500 (I had just won the previous hand and wanted to put some pressure on...)

1a) Too big a pre-flop raise? I realize I was out of position, and I guess I had not thought about what I would do if I was put all in or even raised...dumb.

1b) better to go all in there?

1c) even fold because I am soooo out of postition?

all fold to middle position who calls (he has about 2500 left after his call), then all fold to BB who moves all in with about 5500 (3K more to me). I now have a decision, make here, The guy is in the BB and he is a good player, the middle position guy is a calling station. I am now not liking my play at all. As Sklansky says, "don't turn AQ
in to 7-2o, I feel like I have done just this.


2a) do I make it 3000 more and be left with about 2500? all-in for me now is the same thing as a call here because middle postition will be tapped out either way.

2b) do I fold my hand and take my 5K and play on.


If I fold I will end up in 4th chip postition at my table with about 150 people left in a super satellite trying to get 23 spots. A triple-up would almost guarantee me a spot...what to do????

I will say what I did later, I just want to know thoughts so far.

On a similar note....

Does your all-in pre-flop calling requirement change depending on whether you will double up, triple up, quadruple up??? I can see both ways, do you need a better hand to call with 3 other people, or do you take a lesser hand because of the chance to really get a huge stack on
one play?

Spoody

[crockpot]

first of all, you'll notice we have a tournament forum here, where you are much more likely to get responses to this type of question.

i do not like this preflop raise. given this chip position, you are stuck calling an all-in from most players if they force you, so you may as well just push it in preflop if you want to put pressure on them. why not make a raise to about 1500? that is easily small enough to get away from the hand if a big stack pushes you in.

as for the call, you are getting about 3.5:1 if the middle position guy folds, and 4.5:1 if he calls. i think with AQ you have a call here. the BB will probably make this play with AA-JJ, AK and maybe AQ, and against this spectrum of hands you have a call.

but this is exactly why you shouldn't make such a big raise preflop; you're forced to put in most of your chips as an underdog.

[spoody]

My first post here, I noticed the tourney and the No-Limit section after I had posted in this section. Coming out of the My Home section it is a little confusing, since there is no list of all the forums. Sorry about that. I have asked the moderater to move this to the tourney section. I have thought about reposting there, but not sure that would be acceptable here. Unlike the complete anarchy at RGP, this feels like there may be some rules about multiple postings.

On to your comments. I agree, I felt like an idiot once I was called. I absolutely had lost it there and just blindly threw out 2.5K, it was by far the best hand I had seen all day. I have noticed it about myself that I actually tilt when I am winning, more than when losing...usually.

[crockpot]

a wise poker man once said that it's called a rush when you're winning, and tilt when you're losing.

it fascinates me that a man like doyle brunson can put so much stock in rushes and is still a good enough card player to win a ton at the tables.

[Nottom]

I'm still of the opinion that Doyle's "belief" in rushes is more to appease the other players at the table rather than himself. I have a feeling he wouldn't try as hard to play the rush at a table full of modern day top pros as he would a table full of rich businessmen looking for some action.

[spoody]

It was actually Doyle's advice that I was using about playing a rush. I think he says "I ALWAYS play the hand after I win a hand"...But I think he also said "I NEVER play AQ" What would he have done in my situation? Kinda between a rock and a hard place.

[Guy McSucker]

When you make it 2500, that's a third of your stack in the middle, which is going to make it very hard to fold to a reraise. Your hand is not so good that you will enjoy calling a reraise, so push them in if you want to raise big.

Other approaches would be a smaller raise, limping, or folding. In first position, although if you fold you will be dumping the best hand much of the time, folding isn't so bad: AQ is pretty tough to play well out of position.

There was a long discussion in the PL&NL forum I think, in which many people advocated just calling with AQ. I have tried this a bit and it seems to go okay for me. You can fold to a big raise behind you, and frequently get action from weaker aces if everyone just calls preflop and an ace flops.

Once you've made that raise you probably need to call the reraise although you are most likely in trouble.

Guy.

PS as I write this I have AQ in the small blind... oooh, flopped a straight. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Legato]

[ QUOTE ]

as for the call, you are getting about 3.5:1 if the middle position guy folds, and 4.5:1 if he calls. i think with AQ you have a call here. the BB will probably make this play with AA-JJ, AK and maybe AQ, and against this spectrum of hands you have a call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm. This is the odds of win or tie the different hands:
AA - 8,5%
KK - 28,5%
QQ - 30,8%
JJ - 42,8%
AK - 28,3%
AQ - TIE

To me that indicates a fold, especially since I would say the probability of the better hands here are higher than of the lower hands. The raise was big from a bad position, if I was the one re-raising I would definetely not be sitting with AQ, and rarely JJ.

I prefer limping with both AJ and AQ in early position. With AQ I might make a small raise but in general I prefer the limp. If an ace flops I can be pretty sure to have the best hand, and I have a good chance of getting calls from a lower ace. If I get raised I get off my hand cheaply (unless the raise is small which I most likely call).

[Legato]

Btw, I too was astonished (or rather disgusted) reading about Doyle "believing" in rushes. Casinos all over the world must have praised his book, stupidity like that is what makes them all go round.

[spoody]

I did not want to post what I did in this hand until I got some responses. I wanted people to give me honest opinions w/o seeing the result....thanks to those who gave me their 2 cents.

Anyway, I FOLDED after a long think. I was kind of mad at myself for getting in to this postition, but I was also mad at wimping out. I really thought I was up against Kings and another lower pair, and I was dead on right. Kings for the middle position guy and 10s for the BB. The reason I was a tad mad at myself was that this was a super satellite for the $1000 buy in at Canterbury Card Club in MN. Well, I had already won a spot for myself in the first super satellite, so the pressure was off somewhat. But I played that hand too strong, then scared...if that makes sense. Because I felt I was kind of freerolling for another slot in the big tourney, I think/thought I should have gone for the triple up with a reasonable hand.

Well the end of the story was the flop was A-A-9, I was ready to shoot myself. last 2 were x - 10, so the 10s won the hand, but I would have tripled up and coasted the rest of the way. Instead I tilted and went all in with AJ about 5 hands later and got 1 caller who had AK (the same guy who won the other hand with the 10s).

My worst tilt ever, I really lost it after seeing the AA9 on the flop. I thik if the cards had fallen where I would have lost on my AQ, I would have played better, but I could not get those Aces out of my head. Well, I really learned a lesson. I am never playing AQ again, OK just kidding, I have learned about myself and what sets me off. A very good learning experience.

Spoody [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]