Holdem vs. Split Pot games?

[jkinetic]

I am strictly a holdem player, I know how to play all the other types of poker but when I play for money, unless it is a friendly home game, I only play holdem.

That is the game I feel most comfortable with and I do not know the nuances of the other games as I do with holdem.

A recurring theme in poker conversations between a good friend of mine and I is how he believes anybody serious about making money in poker should play split pot games such as Omaha Hi/Low and 7 card stud Hi/Low.

He constantly encourages me to make the transition from holdem to those games for the following reasons:

1. He claims you need less of a bankroll
2. There are less flucuations in split pot games.
3. Split pot games are more mathematical and logical therefore pyschology and reading people is less of an important factor.
4. There are less gray areas in split pot games as opposed to holdem where you are faced with more tough decisions that can go either way.

For the players out there that are unlike me and have plenty of experience in playing holdem and the split pot games do you find this to be true or every genre of poker is equally as beatable as the next depending upon your skill?

[Ed Miller]

While this is not what you asked, I will give you my input as a holdem player who occasionally dabbles in limit Omaha/8. I find limit Omaha/8 significantly less captivating than holdem. I find myself bored at an Omaha table after a couple of hours while I can play holdem for 8-12 hours without getting bored. I will say that I find that people play Omaha/8 very poorly, even at limits like 20-40.

[phish]

[ QUOTE ]
I am strictly a holdem player, I know how to play all the other types of poker but when I play for money, unless it is a friendly home game, I only play holdem.

That is the game I feel most comfortable with and I do not know the nuances of the other games as I do with holdem.

A recurring theme in poker conversations between a good friend of mine and I is how he believes anybody serious about making money in poker should play split pot games such as Omaha Hi/Low and 7 card stud Hi/Low.

He constantly encourages me to make the transition from holdem to those games for the following reasons:

1. He claims you need less of a bankroll
2. There are less flucuations in split pot games.
3. Split pot games are more mathematical and logical therefore pyschology and reading people is less of an important factor.
4. There are less gray areas in split pot games as opposed to holdem where you are faced with more tough decisions that can go either way.

For the players out there that are unlike me and have plenty of experience in playing holdem and the split pot games do you find this to be true or every genre of poker is equally as beatable as the next depending upon your skill?

[/ QUOTE ]

I play in Connecticut, where if you want to play holdem above the 20/40 level, you have to play the other games as well, since the games are usually HOE. So for that reason alone, I agree it's important to learn the other games. And I generally agree with your friend's four points. Another very important consideration is that the mixed games attract many people who may play one of the games decently, but the other two games pretty bad. So if you are fairly good at all three, you will have a higher expectation in a HOE game than you would at a straight Holdem game at the same level.
Even thought I don't play straight 7-stud very well, I find that when I play in a half-stud, half-holdem game, I do better than a in straight holdem. That's because the stud players (and there are many of them in CT) oftentimes have no clue how to play holdem. You can see people at a 100/200 game calling two double bets on the turn with the nine of diamonds in his hand (and three diamonds on board) trying to make his flush, not realizing he's very likely drawing dead. They don't seem to appreciate that the community cards make his flushdraw almost worthless, unlike in stud where his flushdraw would be unique.

[Copernicus]

1 and 2 are really the same, I think, and both are true. Since the average pot won is smaller (due to many being split) the variance is smaller. If the variance is smaller, the bankroll needed to avoid any given probability of going broke is smaller.

I don't agree that either is more or less "logical", and I think there are a number of nuances to O8 that, with a proper read, allow you to make plays at scooping pots that you would otherwise split. Those plays will be less frequent than hold 'em, mainly because O8 strategy is often characterized as "only play for the nuts", and if that is your strategy you will be in fewer hands, a higher percentage of those will be the nuts, and the need for plays is correspondingly less.

4 is a consequence of playing for the nuts as well. You have it or you dont, and if you dont it seems like the other guy always does! The tough decisions for me are on the high side, where you miss the nuts but still have a solid hand...Aces up, or trips...and yes, they arent as frequent, but just as important to your results. When your wins are only 60% as valuable for any given level of investment, you have to win a higher percentage of hands you are in, and mistakes in either direction (folding or calling 3 or 4 bets with second best) are damaging to your returns.

[Louie Landale]

If your friend seems to be saying that split-pot games favor knowledge and discipline whereas holdem favors feel and intuition. That sounds about right.

He's wrong, however, to suggest that split-pot games are therefore "better". For one thing, you get a lot less hands per hour in these games, especially Omahaha.

- Louie

[muck_nutz]

There are more then one reason to want to learn different games including:

1) Studying a different game can help you understand your main money game better.

2) Playing a different game can open up other avenues for you. In many venues HE dominates the poker room. Still, being able to play O/8 or stud can allow you to take advantage of some action player who decides he wants to play one of the other games during some period of time. This also allows you to take advantage of alternative games which are often only spread during tournaments (and other players are bad at).

3) High limit games are often rotation games.

As far as split vs one way games. The comparison is rarely between a split game of a certain limit and a closely related flop game of the same limit so making close comparisons isn't so interesting to me. Instead get good enough at estimating your earn in each game and pick the best one that is going or is being built at the moment. High/Low split games are more "technical" and some of the errors I see made in them are far worse then those I see in one way games so if you can take advantage of those opportunities then your overlay is larger (and often your variance is smaller) leading to a lower BR requirements. OTOH the games often don't last as long because as soon as the live one leaves nobody wants to play.

So I pretty strongly encourage you to learn other games. Pickup up O/8 is a good place to start on the west coast. Stud might be a better choice on the east coast. Its unfortunate that Stud/8 isn't spread many places as I really like playing that game when the players are weak.

Another thing I would encourage is for you to study other gambling games. Becoming conversant with BJ, Backgammon, Video Poker, sports betting, etc. will open you up to being able to recognize opportunities that might be specifically poker but might be available close to your poker table (prop bets with other players, in the pit at the casino, online, etc.). Additionally it should help you build skills that will allow you to adjust to new (poker or otherwise) games. When a new game is introduced into yoru card room you really don't want to be sitting on the sidelines while everybody gambles. Instead you want to absorb the game quickly and win the "learning" money.