I'm new to SNG's ... looking for some advice/ideas

Instinct · #1 09-22-2003, 04:35 AM

If you have anything to say about any of my questions, I'd appreciate.

I have just come off one of my worst 10 days since i've been playing almost 100% online. ( Lost a fair bit but concentration has been bad and been making mistakes ) I've found my swings have been huge playing 15-30 and 10-20 and I just needed a break.

So I decided to break the "grind" and play some SNG's this weekend. I enjoyed playing them and would like some advice on whether its worth my while to put some serious time into playin them in the future or just keep them as a "change-up"
I don't have a lot of experience playing nl but prefer the nl SNG's to the limit ( from when I used to play them at Paradise last yr )
This weekend I played 7 $50 nl at party. I won 2, came 2nd in 1, 3rd in 1, and out of the money in 4. I was quite surprised to see at least 3 or 4 really bad players in most of them.

So I'm wondering if there are players out there that are making decent money playing these SNG's ... what sort of % are some of the better players making as a percentage of the buyin over the long run?
How does the competition fare in $100 and $200 SNG's compared to the $50 ones?
Do I need to worry about collusion in the higher limit SNG's?
Is the competition alot tougher at Stars than at party for these tourny's?

Any other insite from experienced SNG ers would be appreciated as i have enjoyed the change!

Instinct

Copernicus · #2 09-22-2003, 06:48 AM

"I don't have a lot of experience playing nl but prefer the nl SNG's to the limit ( from when I used to play them at Paradise last yr )"

 You may want to revisit this later. I find weaker players in the limit games because they think its closer to their normal ring game. You do have to wait longer for them though. 

 "This weekend I played 7 $50 nl at party. I won 2, came 2nd in 1, 3rd in 1, and out of the money in 4. I was quite surprised to see at least 3 or 4 really bad players in most of them." 

 And at least 1 bad adder (j/k, couldnt resist...your finishes add to 8 not 7). In a 1 table SnG 4 "dead money" might be a stretch, but 3 is common. In a two tabler 5 or 6 isnt uncommon 

 "So I'm wondering if there are players out there that are making decent money playing these SNG's ... what sort of % are some of the better players making as a percentage of the buyin over the long run? " 

 60% in the money (curiously similar at one and two tablers) seems to be where most successful posters are hitting. The ROI based on the 60% is different for one vs two tablers though ranging from 30% to 60% from what Ive seen. 

 "How does the competition fare in $100 and $200 SNG's compared to the $50 ones? " 

 Ive found the $100s much tougher than the lower limits, especially when it gets close to the money. We had one that went 6 handed for 45 minutes the other day. (I lost when my bad call spiked the nut straight on the turn only to lose to a boat on the river, sob sob). One poster recently said the $200 is easier than the $200 but Ive never played a $200. 

 "Do I need to worry about collusion in the higher limit SNG's?" 

 I havent seen any evidence of collusion at Stars. Ive only reported one incident at Party (a fold on an unbet river, keeping the small stack alive), which was supposedly investigated and found to be "unusual, but no pattern of cooperation between the two players". 

 "Is the competition alot tougher at Stars than at party for these tourny's? " 

 It may be marginally tougher, but I like Stars better because the structure (larger starting stack) is a little better, it has 2 table games, and the interface on all-ins is better.

GL 

Sorry if this is hard to read...my attempt at changing font colors isnt working.

Instinct · #3 09-22-2003, 03:51 PM

Thanks for comments. I'm going to play a couple at Stars tonight as like you I prefer their software. I'm assuming that the better structure is more important when playing limit versus nl.
When you say 60% in the money are you saying you'll finish in top 3 6 of 10 times ( therefore I assume you are averaging close to the buyin as profit per tourny over time ) or do you mean for each $100 invested you are winning $60?

Last night I played 3 more. I came in 3rd in one which was hilarious because I only had 45 chips left when the blinds were 100-200. One player with about 1800 chips raised 600 with QQ and then the big stack with 3000 came over the top and re-raised and QQ went all in. The big stack had A2 clubs and spiked an ace and i got 3rd. I couldn't beleive it.
In the other 2 I was knoocked out early. This maniac had raises all in 3 times during first 4 hands and once showed 89s. I was in Sm with AKs and called his all in raise, he had j10 and made a straight. Would you have called his all in raise with AKs in the first round?

In the other I raised 100 from ep with AA, mp raised to 400, and the big blind then went all in. I called obviously and mp folded. BB had q10 diamonds and made a flush ( strange all raise I thought !! ). i checked back and the BB actually won the tourny.

I guess a quick exit will happen once in a while!

Instinct

MHoydilla · #4 09-22-2003, 04:24 PM

I ve played about 100 SNG (50+5) on stars in last 6 months and I would say on average their are 2-3 dead money spots. Personally I consider myself a very good player and my EV has been approx+ 17 a tourny. I am averaging roughly 72 return per tourny, which aint bad but it isnt great. So overall i think these are beatable just not for huge amounts. I have yet to encounter any collision or at least notice it.

DaNoob · #5 09-23-2003, 12:13 AM

Both of the tourneys you lost yesterday were situations where you had the best of it (either from your read or the fact that it doesn't get any better than AA). In both instances, you got your money in as a big favorite and were outdrawn. Don't sweat it.

In response to your original post, I've found SnGs to be somewhate profitable, but I mostly play the one-table games, where the payouts are much lower. I like the fact that they are quicker and there isn't as much of a crapshoot at the end.

As for your ROI/in the money question:

60% in the money=1st, 2nd, 3rd (or 4th in 2 tables) 6 out of every 10 games.

60% ROI means that for every $100 you buy in for, you make an additional $60.

Hope this helps and best of luck in your tourney endeavors. And, by the way, don't listen to Copernicus, NL tournaments are the best!!

Instinct · #6 09-23-2003, 05:18 PM

Thanks for your response to my question.

I'm liking the nl tourny's too. In fact the last 2 days I've also played my first nl ring games. I've played about 6 hrs at the $25nl games at party. Now I consider my self quite a novice at nl ( know what I know from this site plus experience in tourny's ) but WOW there were some bad players showing up at my tables. I actually thought I was quite good compared to my competition. I really enjoyed it and made $250 which made it more fun.
Its nice to take a break from limit ... I guess I should get a couple good books for nl.

Instinct

Scooterdoo · #7 09-23-2003, 06:57 PM

I've been playing mostly Party SnG's for about 2-3 months having played close to 100 games. I find the $50 games a good deal easier than the $100 although I have done fairly well in the $100's, and very, very well in the $50's. I'm on a streak of about 70-80% in the money over my last 10-15 with about 6 firsts -- 3 of the last 4.

In the $50 games I often find myself up against weak players with 3-4 players left. In the $100 games the last few players are usually pretty strong. So in the $100 games it becomes pretty much a crap shoot to get to the top spot while at the $50 level you can really use your heads-up skill (assuming you have some <g&gt

to steamroll an opponent.

I've played Paradise, but don't like the long waits to get a table. On Party you rarely wait more than 1-2 minutes for a table to fill. I haven't tried stars yet, but am planning on it soon.

I find the SnG's much more exciting than ring games (which I play only occassionally). It also is easier to concentrate on player tendancies in the tournaments since there is no seat changes and most people are constantly playing hands.