Playing AQo according to HEFAP?

[Gus]

Yesterday this hand came up while playing a loose 1/2 table on Stars. 10 handed, I'm dealt AQo in MP. All players are new to me.

UTG fold, the next three limp, I limp, CO and button limp, sb completes and bb checks... 7 to see the flop for 1 small bet each.

Flop: 9 A 5 rainbow ... checked around

Turn: 3 [9A5] to complete the rainbow.

UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 calls, fold to me, I raise, folded to UTG+1 who re-raise, UTG+2 fold and I call

River is a blank, I call his river bet and lose to A3o.

Comment:
Pre-Flop, I think according to HEFAP I'm better off calling than raising here since I won't cut the field much. I will have at least 3 callers if I raise, and more likely 4 or 5. Is it really better to flat call here in order not to give your opponent odds to chase you later on?

I like the flop very much... not too many draw could be around apart from inside straight. I checked here hoping to be able to check-raise (2 players left to act behind me) as most of the time the last player will bet on a checked flop at those tables. If I bet, second pairs and inside straight draw also have the odds or close to it to chase me... anyway my plan failed miserably.

On the Turn, I think my raise is pretty automatic... but should I fold to the re-raise?

Same for the river... Am I stupid calling a bet with top pair Q kicker?

All comments highly appreciated

Thanks

[Mike Gallo]

You should have raised preflop

You should have bet the flop

~MG~

[Dynasty]

Consider this. By playing AQo "according to HEPFAP" (which I don't agree you did), you put the minimum 0.5 big bets into the pot when you had the best of it. Then, when you were behind and drawing to a maximum of 9 outs or just plain beaten, you put in 3.0 big bets. That's the easiest way to be a losing player.

This line is from your flop analysis:

[ QUOTE ]
If I bet, second pairs and inside straight draw also have the odds or close to it to chase me...

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that the reason you didn't raise pre-flop? You did say:

[ QUOTE ]
...I'm better off calling than raising (pre-flop) since I won't cut the field much. I will have at least 3 callers if I raise, and more likely 4 or 5. Is it really better to flat call here in order not to give your opponent odds to chase you later on?

[/ QUOTE ]

So, you didn't raise because you say that would give you opponents drawing odds later in the hand. Yet, you didn't bet the flop because you opponents have the odds to draw. Of course, you ended up giving your opponents the best odds possible by not betting or raising at all on the first two streets.

And, somehow you have convinced yourself that your pre-flop and flop player were good.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
Pre-Flop, I think according to HEFAP I'm better off calling than raising here since I won't cut the field much. I will have at least 3 callers if I raise, and more likely 4 or 5. Is it really better to flat call here in order not to give your opponent odds to chase you later on?

[/ QUOTE ]

The opponents that you are mostlikely up against think pot odds are people who like to smoke hemp and dress funny. Raise preflop with such a holding.

[ QUOTE ]
I like the flop very much... not too many draw could be around apart from inside straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then why didn't you bet it? Bet this flop.

[ QUOTE ]
I checked here hoping to be able to check-raise (2 players left to act behind me) as most of the time the last player will bet on a checked flop at those tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why check-raise? I think you've got a case of Fancy Play Symtoms and need to re-read the C/R section of HPFAPs. Don't just check-rasie in order to say you did it. Use the check/raise to achieve an action (driving a player out, building a pot, deception, etc).

[ QUOTE ]
If I bet, second pairs and inside straight draw also have the odds or close to it to chase me... anyway my plan failed miserably.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or they will be charged to draw out and you will make more money when they miss. Bet this flop.

Welcome to the forum,
Larry Joe

[Gus]

Hi Dynasty,

I'm sorry, I think there might be a misunderstanding here (probably due to the misleading/badly chosen title for my post)...

[ QUOTE ]
And, somehow you have convinced yourself that your pre-flop and flop player were good.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually really think I played it pretty badly, especially not betting on the flop: I wanted them to pay the maximum to draw out on me, and they ended-up paying nothing. i won't do it again... promise.

What about Pre-flop... is the raise automatic here even if I'm sure I'll end-up with at least 4-5 players in?

Advices highly appreciated,

cheers

Gus

[Mike Gallo]

The consensus opinion from everyone who responded...not just Dynasty was to raise preflop.

~MG~

[Barry]

It wasn’t a consensus, it was unanimous!

Raise preflop, bet the flop!

[ArchAngel71857]

Preflop: Raise. If you raise, you more than likely will drive out CO and Button, with a chance for SB to not call 3/4 of the bet. Also, if the BB got crap cards, he may not defend, but by allowing him to see the flop for free, anything could hit him. this should be debatable, but IMHO, raise

Flop. ehhhhhh. usually i will bet here. but (oh my gosh I'm gonna say it) it depends on the game and the players (groooooooooan). If most of the time it gets bet when no one bets, maybe this is good. but you should bet top pair to charge people the max.

Also remember form HPFAP: "Allowing a free card that gives your opponenet the better hand is a MATHEMATICAL CATASROPHE." (emphasis added). If you bet the flop and he calls and hits his three, fine. but if you let him see it for free, and he hits anything to beat you, you have allowed THE WORST MISTAKE IN THE HISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSTORY OF POKER! not really, but free cards are no bueno.

Turn. i like the raise on the turn. Its hard to say about calling the 3-bet. What would he 3-bet you with here? a straight? two pair? trips? I don't see him reraising with anything you can beat. AJ down.

River. Since you called the turn, you pretty much committed yourself to seeing the river.

-AA

[skunkworks]

Technically, you wouldn't have driven out the player holding A3 with a preflop raise. You really wouldn't have driven him out with a bet on the flop. I tend to disagree with everyone else in the thread. There's more grace to playing cards than thinking "I've got the best hand so I have to bet it."

Having it checked around on the flop was pretty bad. You shouldn't go for the check-raise there because you're out of position, it looks like. If the CO or the button bet, if people call one bet and you raise, they'll come along anyway to the turn and even be encouraged the chase to the river with such a large pot, a pot that you would have created.

I'll go against the grain and say I agree with your AQ limp preflop. But you've got to bet the flop in your situation and your position. Gutshot draws won't have the odds to draw on you since you didn't raise preflop.