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  #1  
Old 09-15-2003, 05:49 PM
ineedmoneybad ineedmoneybad is offline
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Default 9-9 final table situation tough decision or easy fold?

I was at the final table of a no limit holdem tourney a coulpe days ago already in the money, and 8 players left. Blinds at 250/500, I have an average stack of 7500 in chips and raise it 1500 utg with 9-9.
Everyone folds to the sb who goes all in for around 12000, bb folds. I have 6000 left and if I call here and lose I'm out of the tourney. There were a couple other stacks at the table about my size and a couple smaller stacks. Is folding the right play in this situation? All coments appriciated.

Results: I folded the hand, and ended up getting 5th place in the tourney.
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  #2  
Old 09-15-2003, 05:58 PM
DaNoob DaNoob is offline
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Default Re: 9-9 final table situation tough decision or easy fold?

I would muck. But it does make you think, if you're willing to muck to a re-raise with this hand, what makes it any different than raising with 72o?

Other than being slightly easier to play postflop (but not much), I think the two hands are pretty similar...

Then again, I'm an idiot.
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  #3  
Old 09-15-2003, 05:58 PM
La Brujita La Brujita is offline
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Default Re: 9-9 final table situation tough decision or easy fold?

I don't think this is an easy decision at all. You bet 20% of your stack with your raise. This might have been a slightly big raise with 9-9 unless you were willing to go all in heads up. Not knowing how the reraiser plays here is what I think.

1. You are already in the money. At some point you will have to take risks if you are trying to finish first second or third. The prize money distribution and the size of the tourney would definitely be huge factors. For example if seventh place paid enough to pay your rent and you had no other money you might play pretty tight.

2. Your hand is basically dead against A-A, K-K, Q-Q, J-J and 10-10. Not dead but 4.5-1 against. Against overcards you are a small favorite against a smaller pair you are the big favorite. This is where reading the opponent becomes crucial.

My personal opinion, after your big preflop raise I would go all in. Very close call.
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  #4  
Old 09-15-2003, 09:17 PM
Copernicus Copernicus is offline
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Default Re: 9-9 final table situation tough decision or easy fold?

99 is a little to weak for an UTG raise to start with, but then I definitely fold to the raise.
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  #5  
Old 09-16-2003, 10:15 AM
Greg (FossilMan) Greg (FossilMan) is offline
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Default Re: 9-9 final table situation tough decision or easy fold?

It won't always be a tough decision, but it certainly is a decision that will have a lot of variety to it.

Against some players this is an easy fold. Against others an easy call. Against an unknown player it is a call, but not one I enjoy making. Unless the tourney as a whole has been played pretty tight, most players in the SB spot here will raise with enough non-paired hands, as well as some pairs smaller than 99 to make this a call.

But, it all comes down to your read of the player, and the range of hands you put him on. That's the tough part.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
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  #6  
Old 09-16-2003, 11:24 AM
LDJ LDJ is offline
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Default Re: 9-9 final table situation tough decision or easy fold?

I think with 8 players left you limp with 99. With this kind of hand, you want to see flop as cheaply as possible.
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  #7  
Old 09-16-2003, 11:41 AM
ohkanada ohkanada is offline
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Default Re: 9-9 final table situation tough decision or easy fold?

Yeah muck. Unless you have been showing some terrible raising hands the SB has 2 overcards or an overpair. Sure sometimes he has a smaller pair but thems the breaks.

I think raising 99 UTG is fine when there are not a lot of cold calls or re-raises.

Ken Poklitar
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  #8  
Old 09-17-2003, 10:14 AM
BamaGambler BamaGambler is offline
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Default Re: 9-9 final table situation tough decision or easy fold?

[ QUOTE ]
I think with 8 players left you limp with 99. With this kind of hand, you want to see flop as cheaply as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]Cheap? It costs him almost 7% of his stack to limp. If an overcard flops he has to fold. I would raise to 1000 instead of 1500. In this spot they are basically the same, but the former saves you 500 if someone reraises you. Oh and like Fossilman said depends on the player if you call or not. It also depends on your table imagine.
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  #9  
Old 09-17-2003, 10:40 AM
TrippH TrippH is offline
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Default Re: 9-9 final table situation tough decision or easy fold?

that's pretty tough, but unless you know the SB has been raising big pre-flop with some non-standard hands, I don't think you have any choice but to fold ... if he's fairly tight, the only thing he should have that you would be happy to see would be AK ... this is why in early position I really prefer seeing 72o than 99 - at least I know what to do with 72o ... with 99, you can either limp in, try to see the flop cheap, and hope for a set, or try to raise everyone out to steal the blinds or get heads-up, and even that's not always good because of situations like this ... I probably would have limped in in the first place just because I'd be afraid of getting re-raised like you did here and I'm too much of a coward to want to be faced with that decision
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  #10  
Old 09-17-2003, 10:48 AM
LDJ LDJ is offline
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Default Re: 9-9 final table situation tough decision or easy fold?

He only folds on the overcard and without flopping the set. I think for 7% of chips he should enter the pot with 99. Obviously, the best scenario would be to flop the overcard with the 9
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