Playing online for a living week 20

[davidross]

Well another week has gone with no job offers. It certainly looks like I might be doing this for a while and it has occurred to me that I’m spending a lot of time in my basement. Outdoor soccer is over and I’m not doing anything physical at all so I decided this week to start biking, A little history here, 6 years ago I started running to get into shape. I lost some weight and ran the Toronto marathon in 1998 (3hours 41 minutes). I was training for the Chicago marathon 1m 1999 hoping to qualify for Boston 2000 when (and I’m not kidding) I woke up on my 40th birthday and couldn’t get out of bed. It seems my warranty had expired. After many doctors appointments, Chiro visits and massage stc. I still haven’t run since. Two years ago I bought a bike because it was much easier on my joints and rode every morning. But last year I didn’t ride at all. I started on Monday again and after 2 days of riding my ass is so sore I can hardly sit in this chair. And my body aches again. Why does being fit have to hurt?

My week started poorly, after the excitement of the PPM tournament I sat down to play my usual evening routine and played the worst poker of my professional career. I was mentally drained and should have taken the night off. I picked the wrong people to try and push, and I even timed out twice with winning hands costing me over $100 when even a check would have won me the pot. I hope it’s a lesson learned. I dropped over $400 at paradise and won $150 at Party for a $250 loss.

Monday was a crazy day. I won over $500 on one Paradise table, and lost $350 on another. I won $600 at Party in the afternoon, and lost $300 in the evening. Roller coaster all the way. Ended the day up $450 and up $200 for the week.

Tuesday was another see-saw. I played all afternoon for a net loss of $5. Again I was up a ton on one table and down a ton on another. I guess I’m so spoiled by the good run I’ve been on that breaking even seems like a really bad day. Like I did at paradise, I find the afternoons tougher than the evenings at Party. There are as many good players as there are in the evenings, and fewer tables going so we seem to end up on the same tables more often. The games are still beatable, but it’s not as easy. I had a great run of cards at paradise. Unbelievable really. I won $461 and I lost 2 $200 pots on the river when my set got run down by a straight. But back at Party my misery was continuing. After the $300 loss the night before and the break even afternoon I lost another $290 in the evening. I was down on all 3 tables. Another night of good cards getting beat. If I took AK against AQ the A would flop and the Q would river. It’s been a struggle this week, but the good news is that I’m still ahead $370 for the 3 days.

My wife has started her unpaid slavery this week. She’ll work 3 12 hour shifts a week at a local hospital until Christmas, when she may finally seek gainful employment. What this means for me is that some mornings I have to get up with the kids to make breakfast and lunch. On the plus side, I can watch what I want on TV at night.

A few of my neighbors know what I’m doing for a living right now, and boy are people ever interested. In my entire adult life no one has ever asked me a question about my job before this. Now everyone wants to know how it works, how do you get paid, do you pay taxes etc. The most popular question is can you show me how to do it? One of my neighbors even asked if I’d play for him if he gave me the money. My wife turns 40 in October and I went door to door last night handing out invitations to a party I’m going to throw for her, and of course I had to answer the same questions over and over again.

Someone asked the very simple question “Could I do it?”. It got me thinking about what skills you need to be a good poker player. Could anyone do it? I don’t think just anyone could. I think you have to be a good problem solver, and able to think in a logical manner. Especially online. I think there is more of an art to being a great live player, and online is more of a science. And in my case I think the skill that has helped me the most is being able to keep track of several games at once. I think I could teach almost anyone to beat a low limit poker game, but to make money playing low limits you have to be able to play multiple tables, and I don’t think that is teachable. Find the guy that can watch 6 NFL games on Sunday without missing a beat and he has potential.

Wednesday was payback day at Party. After struggling for 3 straight sessions I broke out big time and won $532 over the 2 sessions and at Paradise I had a big win at one table combined with a small loss at the other to post a $195 win giving me a $727 day.

In the afternoon at Party, I had a truly horrible player on my left. Almost every huge win has someone like him at the table. I saw him buy in 3 times losing over $400 in a few hours until some idiot started riding him “You can’t bluff every hand moron” was one of the nicer things he said to him. “Doh”, who’s the moron. Anyway here is an example of where his money went. He played a lot of hands like this.

I open raised with ATo UTG (we were 5 handed). Really Bad Player cold calls (as he always did). Button and SB folded and BB 3 bets. I called and RBP calls. Flop comes KQJ rainbow. BB bets out and I raise. There is no need to slowwplay with RBP around. He will not fold until the river. Sure enough he calls 2. BB raises and I cap. RBP calls 2 more cold. Turn is a 6 completing the rainbow. BB bets out again. I’m pretty sure I don’t want the board to pair now, or else we’re chopping, but even chopping up RBP is going to be worth something. I raise, RBP calls 2, BB 3 bets, I cap and RBP calls 2 more. I love this guy. River is an 8 and BB bets again. I guess we’re chopping but I still can’t believe he 3 bet with AT. I raise again and finally RBP folds. BB finally seems to realize whats happening and calls. He had JJ. 26 BB’s in the pot.

Here’s what happens when you forget about the 3rd guy in the hand. Paradise 5/10 and the 2 worst players at the table have limped in. I raise with AKo and get cold called on the button by a Loose Aggressive Player. Blinds both fold. Flop comes out A87 rainbow and I bet after 2 checks. LAP raises me. BP1 folds and BP2 calls 2 cold. I 3 bet and LAP caps it. We both call. I’m trying to figure out what LAP has. Honestly this guy could have as little as AJ here, so I really can’t fold. Even if he has A7 or A8 I’m not dead. Turn is a 9 completing the rainbow. We both check to LAP who bets and we both call. River is another 8 and I have a strong feeling I just counterfeited LAP. BP2 bets into me though catching me by surprise. Did he really stay this long with an 8? I was just so surprised I called. LAP raised. BP2 called and so did I. LAP did have A7 and came 3rd. BP2 showed 98o. I wasted 2 bets on the end because I had been so focused on one opponent I forgot about the other guy.

Thursday was an interesting day. If I had started ½ hour later, and quit ½ hour earlier it would have been a great day. I lost $280 in the abbreviated afternoon session because ½ an hour after I started we had a power outage that lasted 2 hours and I was down $240 in that 30 minutes. When the power came back I lost a little more before breaking. In the evening I had a great night at both Paradise and Party, Up over $900 at one ppoint, but somewhere around 2:00 AM I had the strangest run of cards I can remember. I was playing 1 5/10 Paradise game and 3 Party 3/6’s at the time and I went on a major card rush. KK twice, QQ5 times, AKs once AKo 4 times and AQs 4 times in 15 minutes. I was trying to keep track of all these tables because I was hitting everywhere. I lost every one of those hands. My head was spinning. When the dust settled I had a $328 Paradise win, but down $200 from where I had been, and a win at Party of $220. I lost around $350 in that last half hour. It was wild. SO I’m up $1,370 for the week.

Friday was a reversal from most of the week. I had a decent afternoon at Party, winning $280, but in the evening I struggled mightily. I did manage a small $133 win at Paradise, but lost $110 at Party, making it a $20 night, but still a $300 day. This put me at $1,650 for the week.

Saturday night started out horribly. The higher stakes at Paradise make the swings much bigger in those games and I had to rebuy on both tables almost immediately. I was on a table with Rigoletto and a few other regulars, and the flop % on the table quickly went down to about 15%. I changed tables 2 or 3 times and was down over $400 at one point. Finally well after midnight (after Rigoletto went to bed) the table loosened up and I got some cards. I got AdKd 2 hands in a row in the BB and the SB. On the first hand the final board was KKQxA and I was against AQ, and on the second I turned the flush. Each of those pots was over $150 and in around 30 minutes I got even. I was so intent on grinding out the 5/10 games I really hadn’t noticed that I was steadily winning at 3/6. When I got even on the 5/10 games I realized I was up $470 at Party and suddenly I had a great night.

After a really bad start to the week and what felt like a real struggle all week, I’ve ended up $2,100 to the good. I certainly played more hours this week than I have in the past, 55 I think, making it just under $40/hr. There is no doubt adding the extra tables is helping my win rate. My level of play can’t have dropped off too badly. Ignoring my vacation weeks, I now have 6 weeks of full play at Party playing 3 or 4 tables. I am up $14,750 for those 6 weeks. I’m really not in a hurry to find work right now.

A lot of people have suggested I try to turn these journals into a book of some kind. My wife has been telling me to do it since before I started. This week a 2+2’er offered to help me out by proofreading, editing etc. and I think I’m going to try and write a chapter or 2 and see how it goes. I have absolutely no idea how to go about this and I’m not even sure who to ask. My wife has suggested “Poker? I hardly knew her!!” as a title. Anyway, baby steps. I’ll try to get something written and see if there is a future for that project.

Playing like a fish, or it’s better to be lucky than good. I was in the BB with Jc 7c when an EP player raised. I will call a raise with this hand so I was getting ready to call, when action on another table took me away. When I returned and clicked on the call box I noticed it had been 3 and 4 bet before getting to me. Ooops. 4 of us saw the flop of 6, 7, 7. I waited until the turn to raise and AA and KK both paid me off. Big pot and some kind of image alteration.

I hardly ever run naked bluffs. I will occasionally bet the river on an unimproved AK hoping to get a small pair to fold, but that’s as far as it goes. As a result I think the people I play with regularly respect my raises and bets. Maybe too much. I do semi-bluff a lot, but I think it couldn’t hurt my game to have people wonder about my late position bets a little more. So I did what you’re not supposed to do, I showed a bluff. I was playing at a fun table, and really struggling. 2 players in particular had run down my good hands all afternoon. I limped behind another limper in LP with Jc Tc. Both blinds played too. Flop came down KQ3 rainbow and none of my suit. SB bets out and both players call. I raise for value on my open ender. All 3 call, no re-raise. Turn is a K. When I raised I was thinking free card, now I decided to play like I had the K. Checked to me and I bet. Only 1 call. River was an 8. Check, bet and a long pause. As I held my breath he folded. I don’t know why I showed but I did. 2 of them complained they had folded a Q. I don’t think it was a bad move since I rarely do it and can expect more calls from these guys in the future, but probably not something I should do again.

I never raised the nuts!! Don’t know about this play. 5/10. 3 limpers and a poster to me in the cutoff. I limp too with Ah 9h. Both blinds play and 7 see the flop. Flop is 4h 3h 2c. 4 checks, then a bet and a call to me. I have 4 to act after me so rather than raise them out I just call hoping for lots of overcalls. We lose 1 (Rigoletto the spoilsport) and get an all-in raise for $1 more. 6 see the turn (1 all-in). Turn is the Kh giving me the nuts. There is a bet and a fold in front of me, with 2 to act behind me so I decide to smooth call again rather than raise them out. Both call. River is Ts. Same guy bets again and after thinking about it I just call again. One call and one fold. The guy who bet the whole way had A5 for a flopped straight.. He surely would have paid me off. The other guy had K3 for 2 pair. I think maybe I should have raised the flop, but probably would have ended up heads up and 3 bet. I like the smooth call on the turn, and probably broke even on the river call, although maybe raising the river might have led to a raising war. I was really hoping the EP player had a smaller flush and was waiting for the river to check-raise us both.

Cya next week.

[fingal]

I really enjoy reading David's postings!
3 months ago I tried to guess David's results after 20 weeks. My prognosis was wrong - I admit it. But I still can't understand where exactly I was wrong! Some information picked up from internet shows that extra class players can make 1 - 1.5 BB/hour. Of course - exceeding over rakes and likely on 1 table.
I am not a good player and I have lost for last 3-4 months. But analysis shows that my losses have the same rank as my rakes.
What exactly David writes: he has over $40/hour playing at 3 tables mostly $3/6. It means - for 1 table = $14/hour. My experience shows that normally it is 40-60 hands/hour at 1 table. Let be 50. David as he wrote wins about 9% of hands. Let be 4 not empty hands. I think that it will be $10 rakes at 1 table in hour. It means that David's result recalculated for home poker likely 8BB/hour for 1 table that enormously exceeds expected results of extra class player. And it is recalculated for 1 table while normally David plays at 3 tables! ( I can't believe that playing at 3 tables he still demonstrates the best own skills - must be lower).
My question to David - what your skills allow you to have some huge advantage over average players - on your opinion?

[doggin]

Well....from what I can gather from David's postings, he has
a superior understanding of the game.
And that don't come to most of us that easily.

[davidross]

I don't think there is anything extraordinary about my results. I have heard good players can make 1.5 to 2 BB's per hour in a live game. THe live games I play get 25 hands per hour. I am seeing 180 hands per hour when I play 3 tables and 240 per hour on 4. 1.5 bb's per 25 hands works out to 10.5 bb's per 175 hands, or $65 / hr if you could maintain that level of play. On 3 tables I am making closer to $35 / hr (The 40 has come since I added 5/10 tables into the mix) which I think is the equivalent of .75 bb/hr at a live game.

This is one of the points I have been trying to make from these posts. If you can see enough hands per hour, you don't need to win at a fantastic rate to do very well. In a 5 hour session at night playing 4 tables I see 1,200 hands. I would have to sit in a casino for 6 days of 8 hour sessions to see that many hands. And my rake is way lower.

My main advantage over my average opponents is I play better cards than they do, I only build pots when I have an advantage, and I don't chase unless I have odds to do so. Every time one of my opponents makes those mistakes I gain a little in Expected value, and if I play enough hands I realise that expectation. I am 100 % better at thsi game than I was in April, and 200% better than I was a year ago. Using this forum, the books available to you and playing a lot of hands will make anyone much better than they are.

There are a lot of players that I play regularly that play better than I do. I stay out of their way, and I think they stay out of mine. We don't have a very great expectation of winning against each other.

[MRBAA]

David is obviously very modest about his playing ability. He has a lot of talent -- when I played a little 2-4 with him back before this, he was noticeable as a solid player. I think it's remarkable that he can play four tables at once. I find even playing two really hurts my results. If he can do it though, the earning potential is obviously much,much more than a b&m player could make. With 3 3-6 tables and 1 5-10 it's kind of like he's playing $14-$28, onlywith low limit opponents. And many more hands an hours than live, of course.

Good luck with the book David. I'm an advertising writer/creative director and write a lot of articles and a close friend and excellent he player has just finished a poker book which I helped edit parts of. It will be coming from Conjelco end of year.

For what it's worth, I'd focus on playing advice for the Internet -- you are among the foremost experts. Don't worry about the Krieger book, which is good. You have the angle of basing all your advice around your own experiences. Than your lifestyle will make an excellent back story.

Just my two cents.

[Uppercut]

I think that the book idea is a wonderful one. I greatly enjoy reading your weekly postings. This experiment you are currently undertaking is fascinating, and I for one wish that I had the guts to try it as well. The one thing I don't understand is how you can sit in front of a computer screen concentrating for so many hours each day without going nuts.

[jasonHoldEm]

[ QUOTE ]
ran the Toronto marathon in 1998 (3hours 41 minutes).

[/ QUOTE ]

That's roughly a 7 mph pace...not bad for a 26 mile stroll. Running a marathon is on my list of "stuff to do before I die". Unfortunately, I'm about 30 pounds overweight at the moment so I don't see it happening anytime soon.

Well, a big congrats on another successful week...we all know how hard you work at this, but you make it look so damn easy it's just not fair. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I liked what you said about answering the questions of "Can [anyone] do it?" Being able to process multiple streams of information doesn't come easily, and I think that really is the key to playing successfully online. I think you can develop the skill overtime, but it's definately going to be more difficult for some than others.

I started playing 3 tables at once about a month ago and I'm still struggling with it at times...prime example would be tonight when I got KK at two tables simultaneously. I didn't even look closely at either flop, I was looking for aces and two tone boards...both flops were double suited, and neither had an ace so I started betting like crazy...one table gets capped the other is moving onto the turn. At that point I notice my first table (the one where I just put the last bet in) had two fours on the flop...yeah, and guess who's raising me? The BB of course! Ugh...

Anyways, if you write a book I want an autographed copy...it would definately make for good reading and (from my viewpoint as a completely unbiased poker nut) I think there is an excellent market for a "success story" poker novel.

Hope you continue to do well next week, but the following week I plan to move up to 3/6 so I only hope everything goes well for you when we're not playing together (although I'll be doing my best to avoid you). [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Peace,
jHE

[banditbdl]

I'd just like to say I think you have good potential as a writer, concise but detailed. Also with poker exploding, your poker knowledge, and your personal story you'd have a lot going for you if you decided to write that book.

P.S. I use to run long-distance track in high school. As a sophomore I was about 6 foot 145-150 lbs, just a rail. By the next year my torso had spread out and I was about 170-175 with no real weight to lose. After a few weeks the running was killing my knees etc. If you're a competitive person who really pushes yourself at distance running (which I suspect you are, we know our own) you can't afford to carry much extra weight at all, whether its actual fat or just a larger build.

[Boopotts]

I think David's results are fairly representative of what a good player can expect to make online in the 3-6 games. I've played for about 5 years, and have enjoyed approximately a 1 BB hr. win rate in brick and mortar mid limit games for the past three years (I'm at about 18 an hour at 10-20, 31 an hour at 15-30). I started playing the 3-6 games at Party, 3 games at once, about 5 weeks ago, and after around 110-140 hrs. of play (I don't know exactly, since I haven't kept track) I'm up about 5200$ as of this posting. This, and I make a fair number of mistakes in my play (hitting the wrong button, etc.).

The thing is this: most of the Pary players are just so freakin' bad that you almost can't help but drag in the cash. So long as you aggressively value bet the river, and don't get in the habit of calling 2 cold to see the flop, I just don't know how a reasonably competent player can lose in these games. There are plenty of nights when it seems I only play with two competent players- david and a guy named acesdad. Oftentimes, everyone else appears to be incredibly poor players.

The way to look at this is not to calculate an hourly rate, but an average amount won per hand dealt. I'm guessing I'm good for around 17 cents per hand, and I'm guessing david's around there too, which makes his (our) results far from extraordinary.

[rigoletto]

ran the Toronto marathon in 1998 (3hours 41 minutes Excellent time - Bravo!

Finally well after midnight (after Rigoletto went to bed) Fun seeing you, but I think I generally have a problem here: the best game time is in the middle of the night my time and With work and all I can't play those hours. I find the Paradise day games (EST) tough as ever. Party is better in this regard. The games are still a little tougher in the EST daytime, but there is a bigger selection of tables.

The book idea is great (I would bye it). I have absolutely no idea how to go about this and I’m not even sure who to ask Just stick to the diary format for now, I think that works fine as a structure and no matter what don't ask Mason or David for advice on editing. When you have enough material get an editor!

Great post as usual

P.S. I have 4 to act after me so rather than raise them out I just call hoping for lots of overcalls. We lose 1 (Rigoletto the spoilsport) you forgot the hands where I stayed in and: my AA beat your AK, my JJ flopped a set to beat your AA [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]