Check/call with overpair?

[PokerBabe(aka)]

Mirage 20-40. 7 locals, 2 tourists and one well known loose cannon (just entered the game and posts behind button).

I raise 2 UTG with KK and it's folded to poster who calls (of course). SB (solid local) 3 bets. I 4 bet and both call.

Flop 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Sb checks [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img], I bet and both players call.

Turn red 9. SB checks again, I bet again, poster folds and sb calls.

River is 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB check/folds.

Before he folds, he shows his neighbor (solid regular) his cards. Neighbor GASPS and says "how can you lay those down". The highest card on the board was a 10. SB says "you think she 4 bet me with Jacks"? [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img].

Who plays pocket Queens the same way? Who thinks the sb was a bit conservative?

LGPG,

Babe [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[mike l.]

"Who plays pocket Queens the same way? Who thinks the sb was a bit conservative?"

who thinks the sb shouldve laid it down on the turn? i dont see why he would call the turn if he's going to fold on the river.

laying it down on the turn against you is correct babe. you play very tight and predictably. take sb's fold as a message that you could stand to bluff, semibluff, and just plain push a little more against players who think they know your game in and out.

[elysium]

hi babe
he was playing you babe, not his QQ. the double paired board gave him the out he was looking for, but against most other players he would not only be calling, but he'd also be getting fancy.

i don't know if that's good or bad babe. i don't have your experience and i don't know the ropes in these type games. usually though, when i bet and want the call, i simply put the chips into the pot a certain way. when i want the fold,....well babe i'm working on that one. but i do get checks or free-cards when i need them. and it's all by how i check. i'm weak on how to check and get the bet so you can then raise. i know there is a way babe, but i'm not there yet.

i don't think you bet correctly here babe if in fact you wanted the call, and i think you did. oh the bet was correct, but i just don't think you put the money in there the right way. babe, that's what i think. and i'm sure that you won't hear this from anyone else. they'll say you didn't get the call because you're too tight. i don't think so. how you put the chips in babe. he didn't call. and oh, no one can tell you how to do it babe. you must learn on your own. whew....i'm still working on it.

[andyfox]

I don't know if sb played conservatively, but he did tow things I wouldn't have done:

1) If I felt my queens were no good, I would have given up on the turn.

2) I might lay down pocket queens here too, but I sure wouldn't let anybody else know it.

Some will say you play too A-B-C and thus you won't get calls in this situation. I'm not so sure that having them lay down overpairs against you is a bad thing.

[Zeno]

[ QUOTE ]
Who plays pocket Queens the same way?

[/ QUOTE ]

I do, if I know my opponent well enough.

[ QUOTE ]
Who thinks the sb was a bit conservative?


[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps he just made a good read and a good laydown.

What would you 4-bet with perflop here? Lets say you had AKs or AKo instead of KK, do you play this the same way all the way to the river with the same board against the same opponent(s). Could you get the SB to lay down the better hand? Would you 4-bet with QQ or JJ or TT, or 99 second UTG?

Do you think you have too tight of an image? Is this the reason for the post? 7 locals in the game, all regulars, all know your playing style too well? Is this too many questions? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

-Zeno

[mike l.]

"Some will say you play too A-B-C and thus you won't get calls in this situation. I'm not so sure that having them lay down overpairs against you is a bad thing."

it's a great thing if you press hard with relatively weaker hands every now and then and they fold better hands because they respect your tightness too much. but i think the insinuation is that babe is too readable and so sb made an easy laydown. his turn call makes no sense of course, but his river play and awful showing his hand thing opens the door for babe to significantly (And selectively!) earn several hundred dollars more a month, maybe thousands, and join sklansky's secret 100k and up club.

[PokerBabe(aka)]

I think my tight image did in fact prompt my opponent to play those Queens as he did. I agree with mikel and zeno that I should certainly start 4 betting more hands vs. this particular opponent, and I agree with Andy that it ain't all bad when guys make big laydowns vs. the Babe [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] I was a bit surprised that he showed his hand in this situation, but grateful for the information.
LGPG, Babe [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[Mikey]

I think I would have laid down those pocket Queens on the flop.

[Mikey]

hey babe, it's funny when people say that you play tight and predictable, yet you still got action on this hand.

Maybe not all the action you wanted, but you got action.

[Tosh]

Isn't there a section in HEFAP about check calling until the river with queens when its 3 or 4 bets pre flop?

Having said that, I can't work out why he called the turn only to lay down on the river.