QQ hand

[Brian]

Hey guys,

I just recently moved up in limits from .5/1 to 1/2. I am pretty sure I can handle at least the 3/6 games, if not more, but I am moving up slowly and not taking any chances [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Anyways, haven't had the best of days today, and I'm not sure if it's because I am still adjusting to the new limits (doubtful), or if I am playing incorrectly (likely), or if I'm just taking my fair share of the loss [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

So here's the hand:

Dealt Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in EMP. UTG calls, EP calls, I raise, and MP 3 bets. MP is loose aggressive. Blinds fold, rest call, I cap, rest call. 4 to the flop for 17.5sb.

Flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Checked to me and I bet, MP calls, UTG calls, EP folds. 3 to the Turn for 20.5sb (10bb)

Turn: J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Great. I think to myself that I probably need that straight now to win. UTG checks, I bet, MP raises, UTG folds, I call. 2 to the River for 14bb.

River: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I check and make a crying call. MP shows AJo for the win.

Seemed pretty straightforward to me, but I've been doing poorly today so I want to make sure I am not making any mistakes. Sorry if anyone considered this a waste of time.

-Brian

[asdf1234]

At this point, you've got to be almost positive that you're beat, but it's just a matter of how certain you are. The pot is pretty big at this point, and you don't have to be right very often to make a call profitable.

[dylhead]

I think the problem with this hand is that you have flopped a straight draw but so many of your outs are taken away. Someone could be playing K10s, AK, J10, etc. Your queens are second best pair and you could be up against two pair or a set. Also you could be up against a flush draw. Even if your straight does hit you could have the same card making someone else a full house or flush. These are exactly the kind of flops that you need to be ready to lay down your queens against. I honestly would've layed down the hand at least after the turn raise and for sure on the river. Checking a calling at the river is a good way to lose money. Watch the showdowns next time you play and count how many people win the hand after checking and calling on the river. It's not many.

[Brian]

Does anyone agree with Dylhead's post? Especially the part about checking and calling the river? I particularly disagree with this part. I understood that my chances of winning this hand weren't great, but I thought that the pot had enough money in it to justify the call, although I do know it was a crying call.

Sure my opponents could have some of the hands that you mentioned, but I think if I expect a hand like JT then I am worried about monsters in the closet. And against hands like AK and KT, my open ended straight draw outs are legitimate, as well as another Queen, which is always an out.

So you want me to fold my open ended straight draw with such a big pot because I may be uip against JT? Maybe I am wrong but this seems wrong to me.....

-Brian

[GrinningBuddha]

The board has to get a whole lot scarier than that before I'm laying down my ladies heads up, Brian. If your opponent is loose aggressive, then he could be betting anything from AT to 99 to 55 to QT. Looks good to me.

[nichtgut]

I think you played it well.
I think it's important that he 3-bet you PF. Even though he's loose aggressive, he should be holding a strong hand. Perhaps a pocket pair or a hand like AK, AQ (not likely), AJ, perhaps AT (if he's a maniac, he could hold any A), KQ (not likely), KJ (if he's a maniac).
I would check the turn and call it down, hoping he has a PP or is bluffing.
Although you have outs, you only have 2 clean outs with the pair out there. An ace gives AJ a full house, a 9 splits with any Q and gives 99 a full house. I would just call down for value and not raise the river even if I make my hand (except if a Q falls of course).

/Nicht Gut

[rigoletto]

I think you should check/call the turn and river here. I don't see you being ahead of many hands but you still want to see the river with your str8 outs.

[Ed Miller]

The pot is way too big preflop to be even considering laying this hand down after the flop. It is rare that you should lay down an open-ended straight draw (though sometimes it is correct with these one-card draws) in limit holdem. You should basically never do it when the pot is 4-bet preflop.

Folding decent hands on the river for one bet in huge pots is a fantastic way to give all your money away. Checking and calling on the river in huge pots with dubious hands is no worse than tipping the cocktail waitress an extra buck because she bent over to pick up the ketchup you accidentally dropped.

[lil']

If you think there is no way you are ahead on the turn, I would just check and call, especially since you must call if you are raised.