PARTY POKER AFFILIATE PROGRAM - MAJOR ISSUE

[Homer]

As many of you may know, I am an affiliate of Party Poker (PP). Through this program, for each person I get to sign-up I get 20% of the revenue they generate on the site, for the life of the account. I sign in each morning to check the amount I earned for the prior day. Typically, it is between $0 and $25. On August 19th, however, a monthly gross revenue (MGR) amount of $-8228.44 was indicated ($-1645.69 payment to me). Similarly, on August 21st, an MGR amount of $-1459.35 was indicated ($-291.87 payment to me). Assuming this was some kind of glitch, I sent affiliate support an e-mail asking for an explanation of why these strange negative dollar figures were appearing on my statement. Their response was as follows:

[ QUOTE ]
Hi [My name],

I just got all information from my accounts / ITP team , the reason why
you have a -ve MGR is because of the fact that there has been a chargeback
from some player under your tracker. I hope you understand what a charge
back is , but for your benefit I shall explain you the same.

A chargeback is where the player who made some purchases via a credit card
has declined that he has made any purchase in partypoker , when the
credit card statement came to him, in such cases we bear 80% of the loss
and since you are in a 20% revenue share you bear the 20% loss.I shall get
back to you abt the player detials and other necessary details by tomorrow.
Now it may also be possible that the player may by mistake admit to make
such purchase , in such cases the chargeback amount is reverted back to your
account once the player confirms that it was mistake, we generally make a
number of followups with the credit card company to verify untill they are
absolutely sure that the player has declined the purchase.

Thnx

[Customer Support person's name]

[/ QUOTE ]
My brain is in a frenzy right now, and I'm trying to make some sense of this.

- What exactly happened? Did someone made a deposit to PP for around $10,000 (8,228 + 1,459 =~ 10,000), lose it all, then deny having done such, leaving PP with a $10,000 loss?

- Is it possible to deposit this much by credit card?

- Can't PP prove that this person did indeed make a deposit and play at the site? Don't they have proof (i.e. - hand histories) that he played at the site after having made the deposit?

- Can I possibly be liable for 20% of PP's screw-up?

- Since I now have a negative balance for the month, are they going to send me a bill?

This is absolutely insane. I'm at a loss for words right now, and need some major help.

-- Thanks, Homer

[J.R.]

[ QUOTE ]
What exactly happened? Did someone made a deposit to PP for around $10,000 (8,228 + 1,459 =~ 10,000), lose it all, then deny having done such, leaving PP with a $10,000 loss?

[/ QUOTE ]

If they claim you owe 1459, wouldn't that represent 20% of this players rake, which means that this player would have had to deposit far more than 10k, which must be done over a series of transactions Isn't the max deposit $500 until you get approved for more (which would seem to verify this person made this deposit to party).

[Homer]

If they claim you owe 1459, wouldn't that represent 20% of this players rake, which means that this player would have had to deposit far more than 10k, which must be done over a series of transactions Isn't the max deposit $500 until you get approved for more (which would seem to verify this person made this deposit to party).

First, the exact numbers are:

8/19 - MGR = -8228.44 -> 20% = -1645.69
8/21 - MGR = -1645.69 -> 20% = -291.87

So, a total of -1937.56 has been subtracted from my affiliate balance.

To answer your questions:

- The -9874.13 (-8228.44 + -1645.69) amount does not represent rake, it represents the amount that this person has charged back.

- I thought the max deposit was $500 as well. I don't see how someone could charge back close to $10,000.

-- A pissed off Homer

[J.R.]

from the affiliate agreement

"2.6 “Gross Revenue" is calculated as the sum total of all Players' contribution to all "rakes" the Players were involved while playing at the Website, less any credits, bonus or promotional amounts given to Players, chargebacks or any uncollectable revenue attributable to the Player."

"“Fraud Traffic" means deposits, Gross Revenue or traffic generated at the Website through illegal means or in bad faith to defraud us, regardless of whether or not it actually causes us harm. Fraud Traffic includes but is not limited to spam, false advertising, deposits generated on stolen credit cards, collusion, manipulation of the service, system, bonuses or promotions, and any other unauthorized use of any third party accounts, copyrights or trademarks."

"3.7 Good Faith Marketing. You will not knowingly or unknowingly benefit from any known, unknown, suspected or unsuspected Fraud Traffic. For clarity, we reserve the right to withhold or backout amounts generated by Fraud Traffic from Affiliate Fees on the Trackers, regardless of whether you participated in or knew about the Fraud Traffic. In the event you knowingly participate in, or knowingly benefit from, Fraud Traffic with the intent to defraud the system, then we may terminate this Agreement effective immediately and forfeit any and all Affiliate Fees due to you."

"4.5 Holdover for Fraud Traffic. In the event Fraud Traffic on your Trackers is abnormally high, or there is suspicious activity, then we may delay payment to you for up to one hundred and eighty (180) days to verify the transactions and to otherwise ensure that such Fraud Traffic is identified, reversed and properly allocated to your Affiliate Fees."

This phrase in particular sucks "For clarity, we reserve the right to withhold or backout amounts generated by Fraud Traffic from Affiliate Fees on the Trackers, regardless of whether you participated in or knew about the Fraud Traffic." Another line that sucks is the part that defines gross revenue as essentially rakes less any..."chargebacks or any uncollectable revenue attributable to the Player"

Sorry to hear about this. It seems they will withold any affiliate fees steeming from the use of this alleged stoled card, whether you knew about the use of this alleged stolen card or not. I don't THINK think they are saying you are on the hook for 1.4 K. But I wouldn't expect any affiliate checks any time soon.

[HUSKER'66]

If someone charged $10k plus, played , charged back the amount and left Party and more importantly you holding the bag; I recommend that you find this person, hunt them down, and kill them. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]..........kidding (sort of..)

[MaxPower]

That sucks Homer.

If the person is Pay-Pro certified they could deposit up to $2000 per day and $6000 per week. If they are Pay-Pro certified and are still able to chargeback, that shows you what a crock Pay-Pro is.

I didn't realize that people can still use credit cards to fund their accounts.

I hope this gets resolved soon. Hang in there.

[Homer]

Thanks for the research. I've been reading through the agreement as well and have come to the same conclusions. I will not have to give them any money, but they won't be paying me anytime soon either. This doesn't mean I won't attempt to find out every nitty gritty detail before accepting it, though.

-- Homer

[Homer]

I'd rather just jump off a bridge myself. It takes less effort and will probably be more effective at stopping the pain.

-- Homer

[Lost Wages]

Homer,

Unbelievable. They are saying that since you get 20% of the profit that you owe 20% of the loss. But since your share is ~$10,000 doesn't that mean the chargeback had to be $50,000? I would read your affiliate agreement very carefully though I doubt if they have any recourse if you refuse to pay.

Best of luck,
Lost Wages

[Homer]

If the person is Pay-Pro certified they could deposit up to $2000 per day and $6000 per week. If they are Pay-Pro certified and are still able to chargeback, that shows you what a crock Pay-Pro is.

Very good point.

I didn't realize that people can still use credit cards to fund their accounts.

Nor did I, but I just checked and you still can (Visa or Mastercard). The limit appears to be $500, though, which makes me wonder how someone could get $10,000 into the site.

I don't understand what really happened. Say someone deposited $500 into the site for 20 consecutive days, to get $10,000 in there. Then someone gets their CC bill and realizes that their number has been stolen and is being used to make deposits into online gaming sites. So this person calls their CC company and does a chargeback. So Party gives the $10,000 back to this person. But there still is $10,000 floating around in someone's account at Party from the illegal deposits, right? Or did they dump all the chips to someone else and then cash out? Doesn't Party watch for chip dumping?

I hope this gets resolved soon. Hang in there.

Thanks, I hope so too, though I doubt it will. I have a big friggin kick me sign on my back.

-- Homer