Bad beats... how do you collect yourself?

ic3b3rg · #1 08-10-2003, 05:39 PM

I'm playing in a home game with a few friends, .10/.20 cent no limit.

I've been playing for about 6 or so months now.

The first hand that got me steaming on Fri was this:

I'm dealt 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I have position. I am raised all in by the guy directly to my right. We are heads up. I decide to call him. He shows me AK. The flop comes out all rags, and so does the turn, but he catches his king on the river.

While were racing, I still feel like I'm steaming.
So I'm steaming now, and I'm in every pot. How do you calm yourself down so that you don't throw away money on bad cards?

Here's another hand that got me steaming.

I'm dealt K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I have position again. I'm heads up. Other player checks to me, I bet out 2 dollars. Flop comes A 5 K. I'm checked to, so I bet 2 more thinking he doesn't have anything, or maybe a pocket pair. He calls. Turn comes another A, so I bet again after being checked to, he calls again. River comes another king. So I now have my Kings full... so he checks and I go all in. I'm called and he shows me an Ace.

What did I do wrong, and how should I read someone who is slow playing me with an ace like that?

Thanks for any advice.

ECondreras · #2 08-10-2003, 05:55 PM

I'm dealt K 6 . I have position again. I'm heads up. Other player checks to me, I bet out 2 dollars. Flop comes A 5 K. I'm checked to, so I bet 2 more thinking he doesn't have anything, or maybe a pocket pair. He calls. Turn comes another A, so I bet again after being checked to, he calls again. River comes another king. So I now have my Kings full... so he checks and I go all in. I'm called and he shows me an Ace.

I'm no expert, but K6o is a trash hand. Also, you said this was a home game so I assume you have played with this guy before. What pre-flop holding would he have called $2 with? And unless he is a complete calling station, why was he calling all your bets?

It was a lousy guessing game you were in - I try to avoid them and mucking trash hands helps.

crockpot · #3 08-10-2003, 06:30 PM

anyone on here is going to tell you "this is no bad beat, you should see what i've been through", and to some extent i agree with that, but it still hurts seeing yourself get rivered like that. the exact method of dealing with this differs for all people, but learn to use some method of coping; you're going to see worse if you play poker for a long time.

at any rate, even if K6o is a fairly weak hand, your pre-river play was acceptable on this hand, but your decision to go all in on the river there is ridiculous. what do you think he's going to call you with that can't beat or tie you? if you know someone who is going to call you down all the way on that board with Queen high, god bless them, but they're rare, even in home games. don't make that river bet unless you have at least an ace in your hand.

ic3b3rg · #4 08-10-2003, 07:50 PM

Actually this guy I hadn't played with before. I guess I don't really have an excuse for playing trash like that.

CMangano · #5 08-10-2003, 08:29 PM

Niiiiice screen name, lol.

Anyways, I don't think I put a bad beat on you. Your pair of 4's were only a slight favorite over my AK. When you reraised me I put you on a small pair and figured I was only in trouble if you had AA or KK, which I didn't think you had.

muck_nutz · #6 08-10-2003, 11:20 PM

Taking the troll bait firmly between teeth...

The concept of a loss becoming a bad beat is either 1) a definition of a certain absolute hand getting beat used by casinos to rebate small dribbles of excessive rake or 2) the concept that once you have a certain equity its somehow horrible that you lose the whole pot.

You're talking about #2. Ingoring the question of where a normal loss becomes a bad beat just focus on the fact that, in general, only a few things can happen in a poker hand. 1) Your opponent makes the wrong decision but gets lucky and wins. It turns out this is why poker exists. If they didn't get lucky then they would stop playing. Why anybody gets upset about this is strange. 2) Your opponent makes a mistake and loses. 3) You make a mistake a win. This is very very bad. This is what you should tilt over. Bad feedback. 4) You make a mistake and lose. 5) You both make the right decision and chop up some equity.

Ignoring the lack of rigour in my taxonomy and somewhat tounge in cheek, you _want_ to be beat by mistakes. You want to be beat by their mistakes because the alternative is being beat by your own.

Now to your hands. AK vs 44. You didn't tell us the suites but you are somewhere about 52/48. Nobody is going to think you are a big favorite. This isn't typically thought of as a bad beat and depending on what other monies are in the pot he might be correct to call even if you turn over your hand. Ain't nothing to tilt over.

The last example is one of getting out played. You had a weak hand which improved to a good second best hand. Its not likely that your bet on the river is going to be called by anything worse.

I could post some spine tingling hands where people put all their money in with one out and got there and like stories. With each one usu. comes other stories of them getting busted over and over and over. I don't fret over the occasional pot they get lucky and get. I only fret over those I give away.

muck_nutz · #7 08-10-2003, 11:27 PM

One point that might lead to some better coping skills is to realize he didn't get rivered. All the money went in and a couple more cards came out. I've seen people go on tilt when the card that beat them came on the river, but not have such a violent reaction when it comes on the turn. If all the money is in on the flop there isn't any more poker to be played then cards just come out. Don't let the extra tension of waiting a few seconds more cause you pain.

happyjaypee · #8 08-11-2003, 03:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm dealt 4 4 . I have position. I am raised all in by the guy directly to my right. We are heads up. I decide to call him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?? You are either a small favorit to over cards an a big dog to any pairs 5 or better. Only 33, 22, x4, x3, x2 you are better then 55% favorite. Fold that crap.

[ QUOTE ]
River comes another king. So I now have my Kings full... so he checks and I go all in. I'm called and he shows me an Ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the river, you got to ask yourself 2 question:

-What hand can you beat do you expect him to call whit here???
-What stronger hand then your`s would the all-in bet make him fold???

Considering the way the hand develloped, I can only see an A or K calling you. So if you`re called you either lose or split. And obviously, there`s not stronger hand then your`s to fold here...

just chk behind and show it down.

-Happy [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Greg (FossilMan) · #9 08-11-2003, 10:59 AM

You collect yourself by having a solid understanding that these things happen, and there's nothing you can do about it.

If your opponent has even the slightest chance of catching a card to beat you, then it's got to happen some of the time. That being the case, there is no point in getting upset the few times it does happen.

And, as others have said, if you're going to go on tilt everytime you lose as a 52:48 favorite, you're going to be on tilt pretty much full time.

Wait until you lose as a 5:1 favorite for tens of thousands of dollars. You'll die of the heart attack.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

nicky g · #10 08-11-2003, 11:58 AM

"I'm dealt 4 4 . I have position"

So what? Once he's gone all-in, position is irrelevant. You aren't going to be able to use it on any street.

You don't explain what happened prior to this. were there any other bets, or did he just go all-in straight off the bat? if so, that's a really, really terrible call. you cannot be better than even money unless he's a total loon (you are favouite against 22, 33 and any hand with a 2, 3 or 4 in it; but noone would go all-in with any of those); so some of the time you'll be even money, some of the time you'll be toast, and you're getting even money on the call; you break even some of the time and lose it all the others. a terrible bet.
if there was some money already in the pot (eg he'd raised, you'd reraised, he'd gone all-in) then it's slightly better; it would be a call if you were absolutely convinced he had overcards rather than a pair, but how you could be so sure I don't know.