Bellagio hand: A9o in BB

[M.B.E.]

It's a superloose 15-30 game. There are five limpers and a raise from the button. Small blind folds; I call in the big blind with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Seven of us see the flop for two bets.

FLOP: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I bet out. Two guys call and the button raises. I just call. One guy calls behind me, but the second guy who had called my flop bet now reraises. The button calls, and I fourbet. One guy now folds, and the other two call. There are three of us left to see the turn, with 14 big bets in the pot.

TURN: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Gee that looks ugly. I check, the other guy checks, the button bets, and two of us call.

RIVER: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

So much for my trips. However, I still call when the button bets.

What mistakes, if any, did I make in this hand?

Results later.

[Clarkmeister]

They are going to slaughter you for the preflop call, and I'd fold it myself, but its a heck of a lot better than the one I saw you make the other day in the 20-40. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Did you consider raising the turn? I can't put the button on a flush since he didn't 4 bet the flop. In fact, you may be ahead of him, and would love to blow the 3rd player out of the pot, especially if he has the case 9 with a spade.

I like betting the river in spots like this if I intend to call. It can put the middle player in a tough spot, and you sometimes even get a better hand (straight, small flush) to fold. With the pair on the board, even the As might not raise you.


BTW, like 2 hands after you left that day, I made a bluff 3-bet against that crazy guy in the middle of the table off a tell I picked up from him earlier and stole a nice little pot.

[ALL1N]

Hi MBE

I think A9o from the BB is a fold there.

On the flop, betting out is good, but you must reraise the button's raise for sure; the flop is 2-flushed and connected.

The turned T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] looks scarier than it really is. It is just another spade - unless they have maniacal tendencies, you can't put either of your opponents on a straight. I'd probably bet here.

Your river call is marginal, depending on how tricky the button is. You've represented trips all the way, and not many players are going to try and push you off them. It is unlikely the button doesn't have a high spade here.

ALL1N

[M.B.E.]

"<font color="purple">They are going to slaughter you for the preflop call, and I'd fold it myself, but its a heck of a lot better than the one I saw you make the other day in the 20-40.</font>"

You mean my call from the BB with J2o after a MP open-raise and two coldcalls? Okay that was probably wrong but I don't understand folding the A9o in the hand I posted.

"<font color="purple">BTW, like 2 hands after you left that day, I made a bluff 3-bet against that crazy guy in the middle of the table off a tell I picked up from him earlier and stole a nice little pot.</font>"

What was the tell? Do you mean the guy who had raised with AJ when I called preflop with J2? And then the flop came jack-high? Wait a second, I think I understand why you don't like the preflop call.

[elysium]

hi mbe
you one of the better players around here, so i'm not going to tell you that you should have folded pre-flop. i'm sure you'll straighten me out about that very quickly.

the flop is ok, although i like you applying the pressure at every opportunity. here's why;

the turn: ok mb, you have a lot going against you here, but a glimmer of hope arrives when the button gets checked to and bets. you must consider that the button may be betting only because he was checked to, however unlikely that may seem. normally here, you would just call if you had a slight problem with your hand because of the two loose opponents positioned in between you and the button. in other words, if those opponents were solid or weak tight, and you had a problem with your hand, you would raise if the button was checked to and may be betting because of the weakness shown by the checks. then you have a chance to get it heads up. here, the odds of getting heads up on the turn by raising the button are terrible, however, nothing about this situation in the play-bbok mb, but i think you should go ahead and give the ol weak button raise a college try. who knows? yea, your play will likely be ruined when you get called by the MP's, but you have outs to fill, AND you may be in the lead. of course, if you don't think there is any chance whatsoever to realistically expect the MP's to fold, then i have to go along with the turn call. notice that one did fold for a BB on the turn. did the other one call on the river?

on the river, it looks like you're making an over-call. here, about the only advice is to look left if the remaining MP is liable to perhaps give some tell indicating that he is going to raise, but the call is fine.

one thing though, mbe, before closing; notice how your poor position hampered you through-out the hand. interestingly, when you hold a powerful hand in these loose games, you can manipulate a lot from the blind by check-raising or check-calling if positioned between raisers. position in loose games isn't as important when you hold the nuts or next to nuts. but position is very important when you hold only a fair hand in these loose games. from the button, in this example, you may have shown down for free on the river.

if you have poor position in a loose game, you actually need stronger starters than you would likely enter into with in an average game. stronger. if you think there is a good chance that even if you hit your hand, you will not flop a powerhouse, but rather a vulnerable hand against the draws behind you, tend to fold pre-flop. the danger posed by a loose game when you have poor position and a hand that will not likely flop powerfully those times it does flop, is greater than the danger posed by a regular or average more solid game, because there is less room to manipulate for a drive out bet, and you won't likely be doing a lot of check-raising for value but instead, wanting to see the river cheaply. of course if you have something like a big suited connector and flop solidly, you would rather be in a loose game rather than an average tight game, even if you have a draw. now you have lots of room to manipulate from EP even though the game is loose. in a tight game though, again your position will hamper the big suited starter more than it would A9; but that still doesn't make entering in with A9 correct. just don't think that because the game is loose that entering in with A9 is correct because actually, you would rather enter it in a tight game than a loose one. your trips would have played better for you in, surprisingly, the tight game!

[andyfox]

"I don't understand folding the A9o in the hand I posted."

Lots of players, you have bad position, bad cards, it's probably going to be expensive if you flop top pair . . .

"The trap that you don't want to get into is calling with hands that won't make enough profitable situations. So you throw away a hand like A-9." [HPFAP]

[andyfox]

Why just call the button's raise on the flop?

[Clarkmeister]

Yeah, that guy.

Against you in a hand prior to the AJ vs J2 hand, he looked like he wanted to muck to you headsup on the flop, but then kind of spastically raised out of nowhere. You folded.

I thought that hand action was strange, and had a feeling he was bluffing you. Then another hand later occurred where he checked behind out of turn on the river vs another opponent. That opponent then bet into him, and he gave the same look and made the same spastic raise. It was a bluff raise.

So in the hand in question, there was a poster between the blinds. The lady on my right open raised in the CO, I 3-bet on the button with KQo, nutcase and lady called. Flop was Axx, checked to me, I bet, he gave that same "change of heart spazzy raise" thing, she folded, and I 3-bet based on this "tell". He called then check-folded on the turn.

[Mason Malmuth]

They are going to slaughter you for the preflop call, and I'd fold it myself

I agree.

MM

[Coilean]

Clark,

Did you consider smoothcalling the flop and waiting to raise until he bets the turn based on his "spazz" tell? If your read of his tell is accurate, you get him to commit 1SB more before he folds by waiting until the turn. If you think he might fold to the flop 3-bet, it's probably the better play (since you prefer he's not around to make something on the turn, if possible), but players who fold for 1 more bet on the flop after already putting in 2 are pretty rare in my experience.