Possible cheating at UB

[MS Sunshine]

Below is an e-mail that I sent to UB about a hand that bothered me. As I stated in the letter this was not the only hand that got my interest. I'm up over a $1000, after about 18 hours of single table play, with $8 left on the bonus to clear. This hand left a very bad taste in my mouth and I'm not playing again until I hear back from support on this. I will pass on their reply.

MS Sunshine

Hello

I've returned after a long time away from your site, to take part in your excellent bonus promo. BUT, no promo makes playing in games that I feel are not "right" I play $10-20 and realize that short-handed many plays seem if two players may be trying to run you out or make you pay max with a draw, but may really just be loose ag players having fun. Today I had several hands that seemed that players were trying to run me out while having little chance to win. In the hand below I wish someone to explain BBB's play to me, since it costs me several extra bets to play this hand while another player had QQ and he only had 75o preflop.

Thank You.

John

Getting Hand History Information...
----------------------------------------------------------------

Hand #243367-1XXX at Tatooine ($10/$20 Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 26/Jul/03 08:05:32

HERO is at seat 1 with $767.
AAA is at seat 2 with $547.
BBB is at seat 3 with $428.50.
Potzz is at seat 5 with $621.
RACKnRICKY is at seat 6 with $894.
FTF is at seat 7 with $395.50.
clemen is at seat 8 with $1013.50.
The button is at seat 1.

AAA posts the small blind of $5.
BBB posts the big blind of $10.

HERO: As 6s
AAA: -- --
BBB: -- --
Potzz: -- --
RACKnRICKY: -- --
FTF: -- --
clemen: -- --

Pre-flop:

Potzz folds. RACKnRICKY folds. FTF folds. clemen
raises to $20. HERO re-raises to $30. AAA
calls. BBB re-raises to $40.The QQ calls, but the 75o CAPS clemen folds.
HERO calls. AAA calls.

Flop (board: 9s Qh 7s):

AAA bets $10. BBB calls. HERO raises
to $20. AAA re-raises to $30. BBB
re-raises to $40.Bottom pair CAPS when there is a top set out HERO calls. AAA calls.

Turn (board: 9s Qh 7s 3d):

AAA bets $20. BBB calls. HERO calls.


River (board: 9s Qh 7s 3d 3h):

AAA bets $20. BBB calls. HERO folds.




Showdown:

AAA shows Qc Qd.
AAA has Qc Qd Qh 3d 3h: full house, queens full of threes.
BBB mucks cards.
(BBB has 5s 7d.)


Hand #243367-14XXX Summary:

$3 is raked from a pot of $360.
AAA wins $357 with full house, queens full of threes.
----------------------------------------------------------------

[crockpot]

this doesn't look too terrible to me.

i'm sure you've noticed by now that when the action goes bet, some callers, raise, then reraise by the initial bettor, it often gets capped by one of the callers even if his hand is mediocre. i have no clue what their rationale is: maybe they feel the late position guy will cap it anyway, maybe they just do it out of frustration.

at any rate, if these guys were actually cheating, i would suspect that they would have at least taken it to more than one bet on either the turn or river, or AAA would have checked to BBB for a check-raise (which could be perfectly natural holding a hand as strong as top set).

now, if you had some other hands like this, it might be conspicuous.

[Inthacup]

If BBB was anything close to a good colluder, don't you think he would have folded the river? Looks like a terrible player to me. Maybe I'm an optimist though, plus, I'm no expert on the do's and don'ts of collusion.

[Vehn]

I'm sure UB's crack collusion team will get right on it and quickly provide you with an answer that is most certainly not a form letter exonerating your opponents.

[Rushmore]

This looks very suspicious to me.

This is a euphemism for yes, I believe they colluded.

I cannot, however, understand what colluding player would call at the end here. It does 2 very bad things (if they are colluding):

1.) It makes his cards available in a hand history, possibly exposing their collusion, and
2.) It makes your potential call less likely, as it would now be an overcall.

Maybe they're fledgling colluders, and BBB just hit the wrong button on the end.

Looks bad, though. I gotta agree. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[Bubmack]

This looks like a typical aggressive player in a short handed game trying to push out overcards. Many guys will press any part of the flop in a short handed game. Im sure you have seen this before. IMO, fairly typical.


Bubs

[fnurt]

If 75o was colluding, I can think of no reason why he would call on the end, thus letting you see his cards.

[MS Sunshine]

Hi there,

A single incident of collusion is often difficult to prove conclusively,
with the exception of the most obvious cases.

When we are confronted with the possibility of collusion between two
players, we will not just review that game, but also all incidents of the
two playing together. We will look into the histories of the two to see how
they have played in the past and if it is possible that other players may be
involved.

At times we can prove conclusively that there was cheating. Many more times
we can conclusively prove that the players were definitely not cheating; and
what may have appeared as collusion to one in the game or observing the
table, was merely a coincidence.

If we notice a pattern of unusual activity then we will take actions. It is
against our policy to reveal anything about another player, so the actions
taken against the two you suspected of cheating can't be discussed with you.
However, I can say that in the incident you mentioned we were not able to
conclusively prove that you were personally cheated out of any money.

I am sorry for the troubles this situation has caused you.

Sincerely,
Charlie

I would have thought this hand would have "WOKE THE DEAD" unless the player in question had a history of playing very loose pre-flop or few hands of this type with this other player. I have requested more info.

MS Sunshine

[MS Sunshine]

"it often gets capped by one of the callers even if his hand is mediocre"

Mediocre? Even the biggest fish, before putting in three bets cold with 75o, has a pretty good idea that this hand falls short of mediocre.

MS Sunshine

[MS Sunshine]

If UB comes back and says this player plays like this all the time then ty god for fishies lets deal the cards, but if his flop percentage is around 20% lifetime then I reassert my claim that poor MS got hosed.

MS Sunshine