Ciaffone Quiz

[mojolang]

In one of the questions in Ciaffone's PL and NL book he talks about the 82 WSOP and gives an example in which he and Jay Heimowitz are about equal in chips (about 200k), he has position and raises the blinds (which are 1-2k or so) to 4k with
A [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] A [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] Heimowitz calls in one of the blinds.

The flop is something to the effect of
2 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 10 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]

And he says check or bet?

Although he recommends checking here I think betting is close to correct 90% of the time. Assuming he does get called I think checking is reasonable on the turn if nothing scary pops up (making straight/flush possibilities) in order to induce a bluff on the river. He talks about going out of ones way not to clash with the leaders but I think in this case it is throwing away profitability, the pot is small and it would not be hard to get away with the hand if the betting got big so why not try to make some money on the hand. As it turns out Jay had QQ and probably would have called.

What do you guys think?

Joe

[SirFoldsAlot]

I bet with hopes that he thinks I'm weak

[Zeno]

I think it is important to note that all folded to Bob on the button (with AA) and he raised to ~4K and Jay called with QQ in the BB. I find Jay's call very interesting.

Bob checked behind on the flop and then called Jay’s bets on the turn (6k) and river (12k) and made off with ~$20,000.

Bob emphasizes staying away from a confrontation with another large stack and that he won money from a very dangerous opponent (he and Jay were co-leaders of the tournament at this point with ~100k each). Also he says: "Note that the way this hand was played, I was never in danger of getting broke or bluffed. If I had bet on the flop and continued betting, I probably would have made about the same amount of money, because he likely would have called both on the flop and fourth street, and released the hand on the end. Of course, aces are the best starting hand to play in the fashion I described, as the free card you give will not be an overcard."

That is the gist of his explanation. Now, how would he have played KK? Why didn’t Jay pop Bob back preflop with his QQ? Same reason- to avoid confrontation with a large stack maybe. Both had excellent hands in late position and played very cautiously.

By the way Bob's answer was --- check (10) bet (6).

So it was not completely lopsided. As to what "should" be the play or how I would have played it; I can't really tell until put into the same spot.


-Zeno

[crockpot]

i don't think Ciaffone is telling you to play too meekly here. what happens if you bet on the flop?

Heimowitz, with a big stack of his own, might play it safe and flat call. but it's also quite likely, holding an overpair to the board and facing an opponent who made an apparent blind-steal raise, that he's going to put in a decent size raise either on the flop or turn. you know he's going to make the same raise with a set.

so you now have two choices: fold and protect your big stack when there's a good probability you hold the best hand, or call and jeopardize most of your stack when he has you beat.

now, if you check the flop, what is Heimowitz likely to do? when you don't even bet the flop after an apparent steal-raise, he's probably not going to make a giant overbet whether holding a big pair or a set (hoping for a call from a rather weak hand), so you can keep him honest without putting your stack at risk. if he does make a giant overbet, the pot is small enough that you can fold without much regret.

so all Ciaffone is really trying to say is that you should avoid making yourself make this kind of unpleasant guess by keeping the pot small and encouraging the opponent to bluff and not make a huge bet at you.