3/6 T9o in the BB

Somekid · #1 12-02-2005, 05:32 PM

Villian is 30/18/148 through 40 hands (not much)
CO is 73/10/.77 through 104

Party Poker 3.00/6.00 Hold'em (6 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 folds, MP raises, CO calls, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Should I have just folded this PF? I figured it was worth it for 1 bet, but I really have no idea. The passive CO played a role in my call.

Flop: (6.33 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP calls, CO calls.

I wasn't sure whether to bet or check here. I figured the MP had overcards and would probably bet if checked to (meaning I'd have to call anyways). I also thought he'd raise with overcards and force out the CO. So, I decided to bet.

Turn: (4.67 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP calls, CO calls.

Standard. I think.

River: (7.67 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP raises, CO folds, Hero calls.

Well now I'm in trouble. Am I ever good here?

Final Pot: 11.67 BB.

#2 12-02-2005, 05:41 PM

calling pf is fine since CO is in.
this flop screams checkraise.
once you checkraise the flop you have yo bet turn.
i probably check/call this river with co and villain still in.

spydog · #3 12-02-2005, 05:42 PM

I call this preflop.

I checkraise this flop. Why lead? If MP raises AQ and CO folds his A8, is that good for you? If MP raises AQ and CO folds his 66, is that good for you? If MP raises AQ, what do you want CO to fold? KJ, yes, but that would be rare. Let MP continuation bet his overcards and hope CO calls with 3 outs or less, then checkraise and get 2 bets from each. Plus, you are indicating a lot of strength by checkraising 2 players, which means you can get away from your hand easier if either of them play back at you.

Turn is OK.

River I would call. I doubt a 30/18 player raises too many hands from the CO that contain a 3. Yes, you are normally beaten, but not 90% of the time.

imported_leader · #4 12-02-2005, 05:47 PM

I CR the flop. As for the river...I really don't know. I don't think call is that bad.

shadow29 · #5 12-02-2005, 06:04 PM

Hi Kid,

As others have noted, check raising this flop wins money.

You cannot fold the river, barring some read.

Best regards,

John

milesdyson · #6 12-02-2005, 06:12 PM

this is why i hate leading into preflop raisers.

i've said it before, but here it is again. he is going to bet, meaning basically that you are the one in the best position. he is going to bet any two cards here, basically 100% of the time. by betting, you give up the best position. you allow him to know what you are doing before he bets his hand every time.

KDawgCometh · #7 12-02-2005, 06:22 PM

PF is fine IMO. He is raising enough hands there to make it solid.

FLop, I think that I'd rather CR this. I doubt that this flop hit either villian like it did for you(and I seriously doubt that it hit the CO, he has habitual peeler written all over him), so, I want to get some value in right now. Our hand is vulnerable and we are OOP, so protecting our hand isn't really possible. We may also gain some fold equity on the turn

as far as the river. I might tend towards calling. He isn't raising that many hands to where I can see a three in his hand, though he might've just spiked a set. I may pay this off to also gain a read

Somekid · #8 12-02-2005, 07:29 PM

Everybody seems to be suggesting a flop c/r. But I don't really see how forcing the CO out is a bad thing. If both villians have overcards, I can eliminate as many as six outs against me (if CO has KJ). But there are also hands where the CO is dominated but has a hand that if he folds to an MP raise, 3 outs against me are gone (for example MP has AQ and CO has AJ).

I'm not really sure that the CR is the best option. Does anybody know a way to calculate this kind of stuff with pokerstove or something?

ghostface · #9 12-02-2005, 07:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Everybody seems to be suggesting a flop c/r. But I don't really see how forcing the CO out is a bad thing. If both villians have overcards, I can eliminate as many as six outs against me (if CO has KJ). But there are also hands where the CO is dominated but has a hand that if he folds to an MP raise, 3 outs against me are gone (for example MP has AQ and CO has AJ).

I'm not really sure that the CR is the best option. Does anybody know a way to calculate this kind of stuff with pokerstove or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

We are sure a c/r is the best option. You cant put CO on just overcards.

milesdyson · #10 12-02-2005, 07:39 PM

the parlay that has to occur for betting to be a great idea is rare. first, CO has to have a hand with two overcards. second, MP has to raise with a worse hand. if we are already behind MP, getting CO out of the pot just means the pot isn't padded as much.

even if the guy does put two bets in on the flop with 6 outs against us, is that bad? that means he got ~10:2 on the flop with 6 outs, which is a clear mistake on his part.