Loose Game Strategy Adjustments

[HammerinHank]

I played my first time in a very loose northern California game yesterday and only my second live session anywhere. I played by the book (I've only been learning the game for a couple months) and am wondering if a different approach is necessary in these very wild games.

Here is what I'm thinking about. Tell me where I'm wrong.

1. Maybe I should play more suited cards (or even offsuit connectors) since the posts are so large I am almost guaranteed to have the proper odds to draw. Or will I get beat too many times by a bigger flush?

2. Maybe I should play more connectors if I think I can get in for one bet. The problem here is even in on the button the blinds will often raise which often sets off the raising frenzy and it's three bets or capped when it gets back to me. Along these lines, is some of the advantage of position lost before the flop with so many pots being capped? Also what do I consider when I bet and end up faced with two or three more bets cold with weak connectors?

3. Protecting a hand may not be a viable strategy since these guys never fold. Since they are getting good odds for their straight and flush draws is there much value in making them pay extra? (I think the answer here is yes, but I'm not really sure.)

4. What do I do with big cards? Normally it is correct to raise to get more money in and to drive out players. I don't know which of these is more important. Certainly raising doesn't drive out many players. Do I raise with two off suit big cards? suited big cards? big pairs?

Thanks, now I going to the play money Internet games to practice. :-)

[1800GAMBLER]

1. Don't worry about a bigger flush, play your suited connectors. If you hit raise.

2. If the capping preflop doesn't drive anyone out again just carry on as normal but take more money, your odds will be the same but higher swings.

3. Always bet your top pair strong kicker, never bet others, david ross meantioned that in his new post. These games will be giving them the odds to see the turn to make 2 pair, then with a common structure/loose game they wont be getting the odds to see the river. Don't start checking the turn just because you had a lot of callers, if you aren't raised carry on like you are leading.

Ram and jam your draws, checkraise, raise, everything get money in there just remember the odds you need.

4. Bet your hands that don't require people out AQ AK AA KK QQ (?). Myself, i want feedback on this because i think people may disagree and they may be right, i wouldn't bet preflop with sutied connectors because i feel you only know where you stand once a flop hits and the variance with these cards hitting a flop is large.


There are big swings in these games but as everyone says they are the easiest to beat.

[Dynasty]

2. Maybe I should play more connectors (and I'll add all other weak hands) if I think I can get in for one bet. The problem here is even in on the button the blinds will often raise which often sets off the raising frenzy and it's three bets or capped when it gets back to me.

4. What do I do with big cards? Normally it is correct to raise to get more money in and to drive out players. I don't know which of these is more important. Certainly raising doesn't drive out many players. Do I raise with two off suit big cards? suited big cards? big pairs?

Ooooooh! You are so close to understanding something grand. All you have to do is understand why these two "problems" of yours are in conflict.

[thomastem]

Stick and raise with chickens.

[paoneaj]

Big pairs and off suited connectors have MINIMAL implied odds. Meaning they play well in heads up situations and poorly in multi way pots. Neverthelss if you are in a "MANIAC" game where everyone "stays till the end" and often re-raises, you'll want to play hands that have good implied odds and fold hands that do not. Hands w/ good implied odds are BIG suited connectors AKs, KQs, QJs these hands play well in multi-way pots. The whole purpose of raising when you have pocket pairs is to get people to fold because you want to be in heads up situations on the river. If they are going to stay in regardless of your power, you should consider folding. Hope this helps.

[Dynasty]

Big pairs and off suited connectors have MINIMAL implied odds. Meaning they play well in heads up situations and poorly in multi way pots...The whole purpose of raising when you have pocket pairs is to get people to fold because you want to be in heads up situations on the river... Hope this helps.

The last thing anybody on this board wants is "help" like that.

You don't need implied odds with big pairs. They're already the best hand and have an excellent chance of being so at the river. The best possible situation you can get into in hold 'em is to be dealt AA and have the pre-flop betting capped with EVERYBODY calling.

The only pots in which offsuit connectors can be played are in family pots. You certainly don't want to play them heads-up.

[DiamondDave]

Queens or higher pairs, AK, and ace-face suited are the best (and maybe the only) starting hands in loose-aggressive games. Go ahead and raise.

Good drawing hands like Axs, QJs, JTs, and any pair smaller than maybe TT or JJ should be folded UTG if you don't anticipate multiway action for one bet (sometimes two).

You can excercise a bit less restraint with these hands when you're in late position as long as you adjust for who did what earlier in the betting round. (Did the tight player enter the pot? Did the maniac who always raises on the flop actually fold this time?) Folding these hands when it's three bets to you (or is gonna get capped) is a good idea, even if it's a family pot.

Fold all your crummy drawing hands like KTs and medium suited connectors of there is a whole lotta raisin' goin' on (even if most of the raising is completely unwarranted).

[DiamondDave]

Folding AJo and KQo in early position in an extremely aggressive game feels pretty good. AQo is much better.

Hands like ATo and KJo are trash (unless it's folded to you in late position).

[paoneaj]

I agree and disagree. The question was, what to do w/ big pairs in a loose game where there are multi players in the pot to the end. Big pairs do not have implied odds and therefor do not play well in multi way pots and if you are in a LOOSE game where people never fold your opponents are more likely to catch a back door flush or straight. Which is bad, unless of course you flop a set, then the chance of getting a full house goes up. If you read Hold-em for advanced players you'll realize that pocket pairs lose their value in LOOSE games and should be folded after the flop UNLESS you flop a set.

[Dynasty]

If you read Hold-em for advanced players you'll realize that pocket pairs lose their value in LOOSE games.

HEPFAP does not say that. Pocket pairs go up in value in loose games. Here's an excerpt I just posted in a Small Stakes thread.

...So when the game is good, you should play more hands, specifically suited hands, but only if it appears that you can get in cheaply with them...

...if you are in a loose, passive game where they usually call, but only occassionally raise, you should play any Axs under the gun. You should also be playing a hand like Js9s under the gun, and anything better. You should play these hands because you are going to win a lot when you hit them. That is, you take advantage of bad play. You would also play all pairs.

As for the value of just big pocket pairs in multi-way pots, you may find these simulation results interesting. Not to my surprise, the best hands are, in order, 1. AA, 2. KK, 3. QQ, and 4. JJ. I believe the real-life data on pokerroom.com now has TT moving ahead of AKs.

http://gocee.com/poker/HE_Val_Sort.htm