bluff with 88 trying to represent an ace

Dommer · #1 11-27-2005, 04:05 PM

I don't bluff much as I'm not very good at it, but I'm trying to add it into my game. What do you guys think of this bluff? My image should be pretty tight at this table, and the villains stats are 25/2.2 after 130 hands. I decided not to bet the flop in case the bb or sb checked their ace. When the villain bet the turn I was reasonably sure he had an under pair like qq/jj/1010, and I thought I'd give a shot at representing the ace. He didn't believe that raise, but checked the river, which made me believe even more that he had an under pair. I was nearly certain he was weak there, but I wasn't totally certain he would fold if I bet, should I have continued my bluff and bet another 25$ say? This is why I suck at bluffing I believe, I just don't have the confidence/balls for it. Any opinions appreciated.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG ($133.75)
UTG+1 ($95)
UTG+2 ($172.96)
MP1 ($100)
MP2 ($212.70)
MP3 ($113.08)
CO ($174.82)
Hero ($100.30)
SB ($98.93)
BB ($98)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
4 folds, MP2 raises to $2, 2 folds, Hero calls $2, SB (poster) calls $1.50, BB calls $1.

Flop: ($8) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($8) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP2 bets $4, Hero raises to $12, SB folds, BB folds, MP2 calls $8.

River: ($32) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: $32

Results in white below: 
MP2 has Js Jh (one pair, jacks).
Hero has 8d 8h (one pair, eights).
Outcome: MP2 wins $32.

#2 11-27-2005, 04:40 PM

I'm no expert but here's my play.
You have position and everyone checks to you after the flop. You need to throw out a probe bet. I'd guess at 1/3 the pot to half pot being enough. If someone has the ace they will at least call. If they reraise you got a pretty good idea you're beat. This also causes drawing hands to seriously consider continuing in this pot. Raising here will also quite often allow you to see a free card as all may check to you once again on the turn. If you are worried the ace is still with you you can fold the hand if you don't catch a lucky 8.

ps: I would have raised pre-flop to eliminate all but strong hands, or limped with the intention of folding if high cards flopped not your third 8.

Didn't get to see the results of the hands. Please let me know.

Vavavoom · #3 11-27-2005, 04:43 PM

Bet river K....fold to a raise....If u want to bluff hands lower than a pair pf Aces out

#4 11-27-2005, 04:46 PM

Kinda didn't give you a play for bluffing the ace there.
I still advocate raising post flop. This bet says "I have the ace." If someone else does you'll know it.

Recliner · #5 11-27-2005, 04:55 PM

You can't wait for the turn to bluff the ace when you have position on the flop. You really need to bet the pot on the flop, and fire again on the turn if someone comes along with you. On the turn I'd do about half the pot HU, I'd check behind if I have more than 2 opponents.

Your play is bad because instead of representing a Ace your opponent can put you on a pair of 9's which he is beating. Because he called the turn I think he'd call the river, so I think the check behind is correct.

#6 11-27-2005, 05:08 PM

First of all, shame on your opponent for not raising pre-flop with jacks. If you did have a baby ace, he let you in to outdraw him. Had he bet, you would've called, then, he'd have checked to you on the flop with the ace out there. You bet the flop, he either folds or calls. At that point you put him either on a pair lower than aces or a draw. If he doesn't improve on the turn, he'll probably fold to another bet. If he flopped a set, the turn is where he'll probably check raise you, making it easier to fold as you know you're beat.
As the hand played out, you still should've bet the flop, it would've been easier to convince him he's beat.

DoomSlice · #7 11-27-2005, 05:11 PM

You absolutely 100% should be betting this flop. More for the fact that you want someone with a pair of 9s or something like KQ to get the heck out of there.

Dommer · #8 11-27-2005, 05:35 PM

So seems like nobody agrees with checking behind here in case bb or sb checked an ace, I wasn't sure of that reasoning either and I can definitely see its easier to represent an ace when I bet the flop. Clearly betting the flop and half potting the turn would get mp2 to fold a good percentage of the time. If mp2 folds the flop but the sb or bb call I'm probably checking behind on the turn and folding to a bet on the river. And obviously if I get multiple callers I'm shutting down as well. Sound like a good plan for this hand? Who likes betting the turn against sb or bb?

ajmargarine · #9 11-27-2005, 07:25 PM

I, for one, like the check behind on the flop. I'm playing this for set value. Period. If it were a rainbow board I may take a shot at it against certain opponents. But you got 3 of them, and that's alot. I think making some kind of play here is neutral EV at best at these stakes. You'll win a little, lose a little and probably end up close to even in the end.

You're attempt to represent the ace is futile. As no one will give you credit for one when you didn't bet it in position with a 2-flush on the board. I'm just folding the turn to MP's bet.