A play I am trying lately

kapw7 · #1 11-22-2005, 06:37 PM

I'm having a lot of fun clearing the bonus at PS especially coming form the pretty tough Prima 3/6 games. So I am experimenting a bit as usual.

A lot of the typical LPs will call a flop with any 2 so it's not productive to try and steal from them. But what when you check the flop and bet the turn? More expensive but bigger success rate. Don't know if it's optimum play but certainly good for mixing up. (It seems to work against TAGs that defend too much as well)

Hand 1
PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Everybody expects a bluff on a paired board so I dont bet now

Turn: (2.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets

I expect him to try his luck with a Q or J (or 7) but he checks. Everybody knows that you have to slowplay trips so I bet

Hand 2

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

The table is tight-ish except for the BB

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (2.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets

The pot is too small even for a LP to call with A-high, K-high. He's too passive to raise with anything else than a monster, so for the times he has, say 7 I still can draw to my 6 outs.

TheMainEvent · #2 11-22-2005, 06:41 PM

I like hand 1 better than hand 2. In 2 you're not realistically representing anything.

#3 11-22-2005, 06:44 PM

I like hand 1 ALOT. You are almost never called by A high and you are almost never check raise bluffed here like you might be if you bet the flop.

milesdyson · #4 11-22-2005, 06:45 PM

the problem with hand 1 is that you often have the best hand on the flop, and you're allowing the losing hand to draw for free to beat you.

Guruman · #5 11-22-2005, 06:47 PM

I tried this for a while, but then I noticed that the people that fold the turn here are the same people that call the flop and fold the turn anyway.

TheMainEvent · #6 11-22-2005, 06:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I like hand 1 ALOT. You are almost never called by A high and you are almost never check raise bluffed here like you might be if you bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, some donks will call you with a straight draw here and then check when they miss on the river, so sometimes you get value out of this too.

eviljeff · #7 11-22-2005, 06:54 PM

the only thing I don't like is that it encourages people to take shots at you with hands they would have folded on the flop.

what type(s) of player do you think this would be most effective against?

kapw7 · #8 11-22-2005, 07:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
the only thing I don't like is that it encourages people to take shots at you with hands they would have folded on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats a very good point. That's why I don't want to play this a lot against LAGs/agressive TAGs. So in that case it's good to mix it up with slowplaying the flop so you can punish them when they try to take a shot as you said.

[ QUOTE ]
what type(s) of player do you think this would be most effective against?

[/ QUOTE ] I think you can use it against any player with different frequency and taking into account the flop texture, your own image as perceived by the other players, the pot size etc. In other words I have no idea (yet).

It's good for a player to have an arsenal of different betting patterns in a given situation, so he is less predictable and can take advantage from a minor EV play to make more profit in a future hand.

(Hope my English make sense)

Jaran · #9 11-22-2005, 07:28 PM

I use this play all the time in NL, with great success. Not sure how I like it in limit, but I don't hate it.

-Jaran

kapw7 · #10 11-22-2005, 07:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I like hand 1 better than hand 2. In 2 you're not realistically representing anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 2: My aim is to make A-high, K-high hands to fold. A bad passive player might give me credit for a straight (I raised from CO PF but he isnt capable of putting anyone on hands anyway) and if he raises me I will be sure that he has a straight etc and I will safely fold. If he calls the turn bet I won't pay anymore bets on the river UI.