TP Follow Up (5 hands)

PygmyHero · #1 11-22-2005, 01:47 AM

I appreciate all the advice I received in the TP Checkup thread (or maybe just the advice, which was to bet). I played a session tonight and really tried to focus on improving my TP play. How'd I do?

Hand 1:
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (5 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

River: (8.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

I intended to c/c the river after being raised on the flop and turn.

Hand 2:
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB raises, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (8 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

River: (8 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 8 BB

Are people strongly against the PF call? I expect to get 7:1 with good relative position - I can protect my hand on the flop if I like it. Should I be betting this river?

Hand 3:
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $1.
2 folds, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (5 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

River: (5 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero folds, Button calls.

Final Pot: 7 BB

Would a b/f on the turn with a plan to c/f the river UI be better? I feel like I'm betting the turn if it's a K, but not the ace.

Hand 4:
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls, Button calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG folds, Button folds.

River: (6 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

That one has to be right.

Hand 5:
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (5.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 5.25 BB

Again, can I bet the river and expect to be called by a worse hand?

Okay, I think that at the least, I did better, though I'm sure there's still room for improvement. I think that I expect people to be stronger then they are, meaning I'm missing some value bets on the end. I don't expect to get called with a weaker hand, but I probably will since that is all Party players do. I think hands 2 and 5 illustrate this - if the situation were reversed, I would not call when I'm not beating TP, but if I think they won't either, then I'm giving them way too much credit. I'll be interested to hear what people think.

MrWookie47 · #2 11-22-2005, 02:04 AM

Hand 1: 3bet or fold preflop, usually 3bet 4 handed. I 3bet that flop and lead the turn.
Hand 2: Bet the river.
Hand 3: Bet the turn.
Hand 4: Holy !@#$%!!!!!one!!! You didn't kill a kitten [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Hand 5: But I think two kittens were killed for this one. This was the biggest mistake here.

The more you value bet, the more you'll be surprised with what they call you with.

imported_leader · #3 11-22-2005, 02:05 AM

Hand 1: Don't call PF Raise or Fold. 3 bet the flop and lead the turn. call down a raise.

Hand 2: value bet the river

Hand 3: Bet/fold the turn

Hand 4: fine

Hand 5: That's really a terrible river check.

DRD66 · #4 11-22-2005, 02:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The more you value bet, the more you'll be surprised with what they call you with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Weatherhead03 · #5 11-22-2005, 02:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: Bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you explain this to me? I think im missing a few value bets on the river lately. Is this one even close because I'm checking behind here a lot unless I have a read saying otherwise.

#6 11-22-2005, 05:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: 3bet or fold preflop, usually 3bet 4 handed. I 3bet that flop and lead the turn.
Hand 2: Bet the river.
Hand 3: Bet the turn.
Hand 4: Holy !@#$%!!!!!one!!! You didn't kill a kitten [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Hand 5: But I think two kittens were killed for this one. This was the biggest mistake here.

The more you value bet, the more you'll be surprised with what they call you with.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with everything except the river bet in hand 2.

MrWookie47 · #7 11-22-2005, 11:20 AM

You know, I missed the fact that SB raised preflop. That A has pretty much doomed you. This is a good check.

jrz1972 · #8 11-22-2005, 11:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 5:
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (5.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 5.25 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

This river check is awful beyond words. Against your typical Party unknown, you will get called by a weaker ace, any J, any 7, any 6, any 4, and any pocket pair. You will also sometimes get called by K-high. You simply must bet this river.

Look at it this way. Suppose you're a decent but not great player in this game and are winning 2bb/100. When you miss a good value bet in this spot, you wipe out 50 hands worth of profits. And if you're missing THIS value bet, I guarantee you're missing a bunch of them.

jaxUp · #9 11-22-2005, 11:37 AM

Hand1: I think I like it, though if he bets the river, I can't see what you beat him with.

Hand2: nice

Hand3: ummm....I think I like it. It's unlikely BTN will fold for 1 bet here after cc'ing flop. Ideally we bet turn and check behind on the river. I might try that anyways.

Hand4: duh

Hand5: bet the river

edit: forgot about preflop...3bet in hand 1

Vote4Pedro · #10 11-22-2005, 11:49 AM

Hand 1: Bad call PF, if you dont respect this guys PF raises, then make it 3 instead of offering the BB 5:1. Donking this flop is bad too, double donking [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img], c/r flop call 3bet, c/f turn UI; or lead turn if he just calls your c/r

Hand 2: No problems PF...If youre making this call PF, you have to be willing to protect your hand when you connect...good raise. Turn and River are standard.

Hand 3: Follow up the turn

Hand 4: Booyah...nh

Hand 5: You've just gotsta...