AA in a family pot

[Gamblor]

10/20 at Casino Rama in Rama, Ontario. For you Americans, that's like .50/1 [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Loose game, I watched it for a while, it played like a low limit game but there were a few maniacs at the table and every third hand was capped before the flop.

My very first hand in the BB, I get AA. I watch in horror as 8 LIMP IN.

Is this worth a raise? With so many limpers the other two aces have to be out there (but likely naked). Why raise? It is almost guaranteed that I will be beaten.

I raised anyway, and got beat by a MP player (with a massive stack, I don't know how he got these chips) when the flop came 8TQ and he held J9o.

I had to let it go on the turn when he reraised me.

What's the preflop play?

Gamblor

[Ed Miller]

My very first hand in the BB, I get AA. I watch in horror as 8 LIMP IN.

I would be watching with glee, not horror. Eight people want to play with you, and you have the nuts. Raise, baby, raise. AA wins way too often to forgo the extra preflop bet from everyone.

Is this worth a raise? With so many limpers the other two aces have to be out there (but likely naked).

How on earth do you come to this conclusion? You are just guessing here... and your guess will often be wrong.

Why raise? It is almost guaranteed that I will be beaten.

This is just false. You will win much more often than any of your other seven opponents. It is true that you are now probably more likely to lose the hand than win... but you are more likely to win this hand than any one of your opponents.

QT8 is not a good flop for your hand... once you see that flop, you need to realize that it is likely that you will be beaten. When the flop comes K72, though, you'll be damn glad you raised preflop. Or Q85, or J32, or T83.. or A33.

Basically, if you wouldn't raise AA here... what hand would you raise? Do you really think that it is right never to raise in this spot?

[hutz]

You absolutely should raise in that situation. You should be pleased that you have eight limpers waiting to put in a second bet apiece. In fact, you may get someone who decides to get frisky and limp-reraise suited connectors or a small pair. Then you could pop it again. You're getting 8:1 when you're holding the nuts. It doesn't get much better than that!

[Max Weinberg]

I used to cringe when I saw a big pocket pair in the blind in a family pot, until I read a post the other day that made me think about it all differently. I'm sorry I couldn't find where or who said it but you should be raising all your pairs here down to deuces. You're 7.5 : 1 to flop a set with 10 people in for 1 bet already so barring any random runner-runners or coordinated flops you're making money every time if you raise with any pair.

Of course there's always the risk that you've made the pot so big pre-flop that no one is leaving, so there's always the option of check-raising the flop to try to charge them to draw afterwards.

Oh and it's actually less likely that stray aces are out there, since you're holding half of them.

[flopdanutz]

and automatically raise with KK, QQ, AK, AQs, AJs, ATs
with that many limpers

If I were at the table, I would raise with more hands than just that to get a little extra value when I hit like Axs down to A5s KQs, QJs, JTs and play accordingly because some poeple try to limp reraise (or just plain limp) with monster aces or monster kings.

[PokerPrince]

I play up at Rama once in a while, decent poker room. Anyways, you shouldn't be upset at all the preflop callers, but ecstatic as you hold the very best hand at this point. You simply must raise here. I would pump it up with AA,KK,QQ,AKs,AQs and maybe a couple of others.

PokerPrince

[Allan]

That QQ is not an auto raise here and a limp might be the better play, just some food for thought....


Allan

[Gamblor]

I suppose I should have qualified that post with the statement that I have been running extremely bad recently

I just seem to be getting sucked out on alot.
Getting KK cracked by J3 suited when he calls his pair o' 3s all the way and catches a J on the river.

Things like that.
I did check raise the flop, but folded on the turn when he raised my turn bet.

[Bob T.]

I believe that you will win about 1/3 of the hands in this situation. You are getting paid 8-1 on your 2-1 underdog if you raise. What more do you want?

[Dynasty]

Sklansky and Malmuth are wrong. QQ should definitely be raised. There are very few players who are strong enough to make up the ~4 additional big bets which go into the pot pre-flop when you raise.

If you are one of the best players in the world, you can give up that kind of pre-flop EV. If you are still working on your game, you should raise.