What is this mind?

[J. Stew]

I have thoughts in my head. I can act on them by writing them down right here as I am doing, or I can just notice them or be aware of them. So it seems that I have the free will to choose to act on my thoughts, or not to act on them. If my mind is the mind that is thinking thoughts, what is the mind that is capable of being aware of my thoughts, or the mind that is not affected/unattached to my thought process. The 'silent observer'. What is this mind? This is the mind that sees clearly what I am thinking and by seeing clearly what I am thinking, I can choose to act on something or choose not to act on something. If I can't see my thoughts clearly, I do not know what I will do because I may be acting out of some deep rooted frustration or anger or some fear that I am not aware of.

Is this mind that sees the truth about my thoughts and just observes, the mind that sees reality as is without the bias of my thoughts? And if this is the mind that sees reality, what else is this mind capable of seeing, but just the reality that is around me? Is this all that I'm capable of seeing or is there something more than the reality that is around me and that I'm apart of? If I believe in God that would give me some relief from worry. I could have faith and my fears would be gone and I wouldn't worry which would make my mind clear. But isn't faith another thought in my head? Faith seems like acting from some underlying belief/thought. If I act from faith, then my thought-process is affected by some root thought. If I give up conceptual belief and just observe what is going on, what is this empty-mind that actually feels filled? Is this the thing that religion points to, to remain in a state of 'quiet' mind, so you can actually experience what is around you without the crazy interpretation the thinking mind thinks about everything?

[imported_luckyme]

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I have thoughts in my head.

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Well, that may be your first stumbling block. You're starting with an amazing premise. "I" have "thoughts" in "my" head. Perhaps, until you find some useful evidence that goes counter to it, you'd be better off just assuming there is just one person between your ears and not some duo or trinity.

A modernized version of "ThoughtsR'Us" seems to describe the workings just fine, without having to resort to entities that don't think but can make decisions!.

But, what the hey, it's sounds like you guys are having fun in there so .. have at it.

luckyme

Late in your post you seem to be heading towards a buddhist mind-state. Buddhism has no god and no external "faith" to think about. The goal is to eliminate all suffering and mental strain and to completely clear the mind of all thoughts.

"Is this the thing that religion points to, to remain in a state of 'quiet' mind, so you can actually experience what is around you without the crazy interpretation the thinking mind thinks about everything?"


This seems to be what Buddhism points to, in a way. Its purpose, however, is not to "see reality" but to end the individual's suffering.

By the way, I'm by no means an expert on Buddhism so I could be a bit off. Good luck on your thoughts.

[J. Stew]

Yeah, I've read a lot of Zen stuff, and you are the third person to see that in what I'm posting. I'm wondering if I'm being swayed by what I've read about Zen rather than seeing things without the bias of pre-conceived thought. Then again, Zen doesn't point to anything in particular that is separate from that which I already am. Hmmmm. . . thanks.

[J. Stew]

That is exactly my question though. There is the mind that thinks and the mind that observes the thought, which seems like just a basic awareness. This basic awareness seems common in everyone, but the thinking mind is the one that seems subjective to experience/swayed by one's own 'lens of perception'.

[imported_luckyme]

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There is the mind that thinks and the mind that observes the thought,

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That's quite the statement, You have clips? Repeating a premise doesn't strengthen it. If we believe reality is how it seems to us then the railway tracks really do join together. This "little man in the head of the little man in my head" way of thinking about consciousness deserves to rest in peace.

The only evidence there is consists of "at times, that what it seems to me", which has a pretty poor track record when it comes to a test of the reality of any situation.

Have you read any of the modern neuroscience explorations of self and consciousness? Fascinating, the amount that they already know about minds and perception, I think you'd enjoy it.
I used to have the address for where to order the electromagnet that applied to a spot on the head give a person the Zen meditated feeling of "one with the universe", it's a matter of dampening down the part of the brain that tracks "me" as separate from "the rest of my surrondings". neat stuff.

It just seems a waste to me to rely on "what it seems like from in here" as the only source of information about the brain, the mind, consciousness, etc. Whatever floats your boat though, enjoy,

luckyme

[J. Stew]

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[ QUOTE ]
There is the mind that thinks and the mind that observes the thought,

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That's quite the statement, You have clips? Repeating a premise doesn't strengthen it. If we believe reality is how it seems to us then the railway tracks really do join together. This "little man in the head of the little man in my head" way of thinking about consciousness deserves to rest in peace.

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How do you understand yourself, by having someone else psychoanalyze you, or you do it yourself?

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The only evidence there is consists of "at times, that what it seems to me", which has a pretty poor track record when it comes to a test of the reality of any situation.

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Well, it's difficult to be constantly aware of what you are thinking which I think is necessary to see reality from an unbiased perspective. Most people are ignorant to the thoughts in their head that drive their action/more thought so this could explain the 'poor track record'.

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Have you read any of the modern neuroscience explorations of self and consciousness? Fascinating, the amount that they already know about minds and perception, I think you'd enjoy it.

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No, I'll check it out.

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I used to have the address for where to order the electromagnet that applied to a spot on the head give a person the Zen meditated feeling of "one with the universe", it's a matter of dampening down the part of the brain that tracks "me" as separate from "the rest of my surrondings". neat stuff.

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Seems logical, I'll let you go first.

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It just seems a waste to me to rely on "what it seems like from in here" as the only source of information about the brain, the mind, consciousness, etc. Whatever floats your boat though, enjoy,

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Everything that is 'in here' is all I can work with. Understanding everything about 'me' until I realize what I am is the only way for me to realize what I am. Understanding the concepts that modern neuroscience talks about will paint a conceptual picture inside my head but can a thought change the awareness that sees the concepts as separate from the nothingness that I already am?

This brings to mind a lymeric I read recently by late philosopher Alan Watts:

There was a young man who said "Though,
It seems that I know that I know,
What I would like to see is the 'I' that knows 'Me'
When I know that I know that I know"

The thing thats really "you" is the conscious awareness that observes the thoughts, or the mind that observes the thinking mind. This is the same "you" thats in every other person.
The thoughts themselves happen of their own accord.

J Stew
I come from your perspective with this stuff. I am not sure Luckyme is really "getting" where you are going with this or I dont think he would be as dismissive.
How can you live honestly without trying to clear away the muck of unnecessary and biased thinking? Even incredibly intelligent people are biased many times, prejudiced, and full of self-deception.
In my experience the hardest path has been self-reflection. Letting the mind quiet and seeing thoughts subside is NOT something that most people will understand.
Particularly people who use the mind the way scientists and philosophers use it. They believe in their thoughts and trust their thinking process.
If you have the experience of meditation, of letting thoughts subside and see that there can be a clear consciousness devoid of thinking, most of these guys on this forum would change their tune, imo. However, not having experienced it, they would say it is BS.
That is the difference between experience and faith. I have experienced what it is to have thoughts subside for a time, and seen that the consciousness remains.

g

[Rduke55]

What is mind?
Doesn't matter.
What is matter?
Never mind.

- H. Jay Simpson