Loose Call?

[PJM1206]

I am MP1 villan is in the BB. I think he is tight and on the passive side. I am looking for leaks in my play and this hand may be one. I am tending to not respect many raises. I called down based on an optomisitc count of outs. Would you agree?

Ultimate Bet 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls.

I am check raised here and getting 7:1 to call the raise. I opptomistcally base my call on 5 outs 8:1 but implied odds justifes that call. I ratioanlize that flush draw is not what he has thus 5 outs. If he has a trips I need 10 to 1 (2 outs -- 2 T) again I think if I hit my trips I will make $$ with higher trips so naturally I call. Would you say I am being too optomistic in my assessment of my opponent?

River: (8 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10 BB

[gopnik]

I think it's a borderline situation. Getting 7:1 plus 2 outs to improve might be just enough to call.
You did not raise preflop, so your bet does not represent a continuation bet to the villain, thus he knows you have something. Plus, he is kind of passive. I guess I would be more inclined to fold here.

[Fantam]

Given your read, I think that its most likely that BB is raising the turn with trip 4's.

In which case, the odds of your hitting one of your 2 outs to a boat are 23:1.

So even with implied odds, I dont think that its worthwhile to call the turn raise against a tight passive opponent.

A check-raise on the turn by a passive player usually indicates a very strong hand. I think you are facing at least 2 pair most of the time. This board looks more like trips or maybe a FH.

So the only question you have to ask yourself is wether the pot is large enough to justify going all the way.

If you see a showdown you have to pay 2 bets to win 8. This means you have to win about 20% of the time.
A T falls about 4% of the time, so i guess your toppair needs to be the best hand about 15% of the time.

Against an aggressive player and/or a player who likes to bluff raise, this is a clear call.
But i think against a passive opponent you're not ahead more than those 15%, i haven't seen them bluff check-raise very often, if at all.

[tiltaholic]

try to avoid open limping in middle position.

against an unknown i'll call down but against a known tight passive i'll fold to the turn check raise. but it would have to be a read of "very passive".

people do wacky things when the board pairs. i like to call down to see if they are being wacky or not.

Im not a big fan of open limping either, and given your read on the BB the check-raise does not look good.

[MrWookie47]

The only things you have 5 outs against are JJ+. If you're against T3 (and villain is a moran), you're best. If it's a 4, you have two outs. If it's a better T, you have 3. It's almost always a 4 here. You can let this go in this small pot.

[bottomset]

very easy fold