AJs on the turn, this raise spew?(1/2 full)

lautzutao · #1 10-31-2005, 09:14 AM

No info on players, it's my 2nd orbit at the table. Two previous hands I've played and shown down big hands if that means anything.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $1.50.
UTG (poster) checks, 6 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, SB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises???

@bsolute_luck · #2 10-31-2005, 09:17 AM

what makes you think it's a spew?

not only do you have the nut flush draw, not only could your TPTK be the best hand, you have UTG in the middle for more value.

lautzutao · #3 10-31-2005, 09:18 AM

The double donk made me think maybe this raise is inappropriate here. It's why I'm asking the question [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

If villian has JT, I'm suckin wind with about 25% equity. Any other 2pair and I'm a little better at about 35%. And I'm ahead if villian is an idiot. So given this I should have just called yes?

RustyCJ · #4 10-31-2005, 09:29 AM

*grunch*
I think you're probably behind at this point, you raised PF showing strength, were bet into on the flop and you raised and were just called. He bets into you again on the turn, so I think calling is correct now and a J may not be a clean out.

I've got plenty to learn so take this FWIW.

TennesseeKid · #5 10-31-2005, 09:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
No info on players, it's my 2nd orbit at the table. Two previous hands I've played and shown down big hands if that means anything.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $1.50.

UTG (poster) checks, 6 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, SB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises???

[/ QUOTE ]

The turn bet is strange after the call on the flop. We have TPTK, the nut flush draw, and an overcard. Unless he set up 10s or has 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], I don't see how this is spewing.

TennesseeKid · #6 10-31-2005, 09:48 AM

I'm weak in calculating Ev often but help me out here:

If villian has J/10 wouldn't you be getting the correct pot odds here? 9 to flush, 3 to A, right? So you are getting 2.6-1 are you not?

@bsolute_luck · #7 10-31-2005, 09:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The double donk made me think maybe this raise is inappropriate here. It's why I'm asking the question [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

If villian has JT, I'm suckin wind with about 25% equity. Any other 2pair and I'm a little better at about 35%. And I'm ahead if villian is an idiot. So given this I should have just called yes?

[/ QUOTE ]

that's why i asked why you thought it was a spew. i don't know why you're assuming he has JT here- he could have KJ or he could have 89 for the straight. i don't think it is a "spew" given the reasons i've already stated.

lautzutao · #8 10-31-2005, 10:03 AM

spew was the wrong word then. Thanks for the reply.

WalkAmongUs · #9 10-31-2005, 10:04 AM

I don't think its a "spew" but I am interested in hearing whether a raise or a call is appropriate.

Against one double-donking opponent I would think a call is better. If you hit on the river he will most likely bet into you. If you are behind you lose less.

Basically a WA/WB line would be best in this situation.

You have a chance of being ahead plus a chance of drawing out. The double-donk tells you this guy probably isn't going anywhere so a semi-bluff raise isn't appropriate.

If he does have the best hand you don't want to be raising.

If he's behind, you don't want to stop him from betting your hand for you. You also have lots of outs to outdraw him.

If you hit the river, you can raise him. The question is, if you miss the river and he bets into you, do you call?

@bsolute_luck · #10 10-31-2005, 10:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If he does have the best hand you don't want to be raising.

If he's behind, you don't want to stop him from betting your hand for you. You also have lots of outs to outdraw him.

If you hit the river, you can raise him. The question is, if you miss the river and he bets into you, do you call?

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm...i think i like this thinking very much. and if it is a non-[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or 9, yes i'm probably calling.