Turn donk river check-raise...call or fold?

hellite · #1 10-28-2005, 10:41 PM

No reads on villain. Seems to be rather tight. Let me know what you think
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (7.40 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.70 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, Hero...

This one made me feel ill.

flopmonster · #2 10-29-2005, 04:04 AM

Hero calls..I have zero clue what he could have but prolly aa or jj...

Nick C · #3 10-29-2005, 05:13 AM

I think MP2 is probably either trying to maximize some big hand through confusion or is trying really hard to push you off of your hand.

I think I would call, expecting to lose.

Piiop · #4 10-29-2005, 05:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think MP2 is probably either trying to maximize some big hand through confusion or is trying really hard to push you off of your hand.

I think I would call, expecting to lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. You'll lose a lot to weirdly played AA, but he'll occasionally have 88/99 or AK here, plus you get the info on what he has.

admiralfluff · #5 10-29-2005, 05:23 AM

I sometimes take a similar line when up against a decent opponent who is aggressive and likely has a strong made hand. Often in multiple preflop-bet pots.

Usually I go bet/call flop,
and instead of a c/r on the turn I donk for the bet/3bet. If I miss there's a good chance I can get my c/r in on the river.

Without reads it's close, but if "seems rather tight" is a read I don't think you need to call this c/r. If I had any sense that he may be rather tight and somewhat passive, I would also consider checking behind on the river.

toss · #6 10-29-2005, 06:01 AM

I'd fold the river feeling severely pooned.

Borodog · #7 10-29-2005, 12:09 PM

I think this is a pretty safe fold. Looks like AA to me. He just called preflop heads up for deception, called the flop for the same, then worried you'd check behind AK and he'd miss value, so he donks, once you call he figures you have a little something-something and will value bet the river if he checks, so he can c/r.

PS. hellite,

I owe you an apology for a previous thread, about routinely 3-betting unknown EP raisers on Party $3-$6 with AQ. I hadn't played any online over the summer, since the advent of the 6-max games. And when I began playing again in August I was rehabbing my bankroll at $2-$4. The 6-maxes have significantly tightened up the full-ring $3-$6 games, leaving them much, much tighter than they were back in May (the last time I had played online any significant amount). Routinely 3-betting unknown EP raisers at $3-$6 with AQo would be suicide.

You were right, I was wrong. My apologies. Good luck.

hellite · #8 10-29-2005, 12:36 PM

I think it was a pretty safe fold too. What hands do I beat here? Some small pair villain open raised with? Unfortunately I called. I think you are right, he put me on AK and tried to maximize his monster. I don't think I can fold to the turn donk here. Unfortunately, after villain checked on river I felt there was some value to betting the river. I was wrong. The only range of hands I beat against a pretty tight opponent are no pair and some small pair. Basically, hands that probably do not call a river bet here. I didn't have a plan on the river and it cost me an extra bet.

Villain shows 77 for the full house as I reach for the rolaids.

toss · #9 10-29-2005, 12:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
maximize his monster

[/ QUOTE ]

More like play it the worst way possible.

Pharity · #10 10-29-2005, 02:27 PM

Why not raise the turn? Can someone please explain?