Poker Stars vs. Party Poker—The Good, Bad, and the Ugly

[Timer]

* [I wrote this on June 12th but never bothered to post it. Recent talk about Poker Stars vs. Party Poker brought it back to mind, and as we all know some things have changed since then. I read this over only making parenthetical edits. This is the original post.

One more thing: I haven’t played at Stars since I wrote this. I’ve obviously left some things out, and I’m certain I’ve overlooked some obvious problems. Recent changes also make some observations dated. Feel free to criticize or to add or subtract from the lists.]



Poker Stars vs. Party Poker—The Good, Bad, and the Ugly

In my opinion there are good and bad and ugly things about both of these online poker sites. I feel that if the good things from both sites were combined you would have one super site. But neither site seems willing to make any changes to their software, interface or customer service to make this come about. That being said, I’m going to list what I believe are the good, bad and ugly about both of these poker venues.

Poker Stars—The Good

Poker Stars has good support. Their waiting lists function well. When you put yourself on a waiting list you stay on it, at least as far as my experience goes, and when you want to see who is on the waiting list it comes up quickly. Poker Stars has a lower rake for some games. Poker Stars tournaments function smoothly, and they have some nice features in their tournament software. They have a lot of tournaments with a lot of variety. Bonuses don’t expire. Frequent Player Points can be used toward freeroll tournaments.

The Bad

I have trouble seeing things on Stars. The cards are too small and the bet sizes are hard to read. When it’s your turn the square with your name in it blinks in blue. I just don’t like that great big blinking blue thing, which is hard to see anyway. It’s also difficult for me to see everyone who is in the pot.

Stars puts the pot size up above the dealer where it’s hard to see. Why not put the pot size next to the pot? Just place it underneath the chips in the middle of the pot where it’s the most logical. That way you wouldn’t have to hover your cursor over the pot to read the pot size or look up to the top of the window.

I personally don’t care for their color coordination scheme. I think their color structure makes things harder to read. A somewhat darker background and tabletop seems to make things show up better.

The lobby window for Stars is too small. You could get rid of those pictures of Lee Jones, etc. and just stretch the lobby window down farther. In my opinion, there is a lot of wasted space on the stars platform. When you click on the Poker Stars cashier you can’t go back to the lobby without exiting the cashier first.

When you are on the waiting list for a seat a box will come up telling you the seat is available. If you decide to take the seat and click on “yes,” the lobby window will pop back up covering up one of your games. If you’re multi-tabling this is very annoying. [Ditto for Party.]

Sometimes you have to wait a long time for a seat. Stars sit’n’go’s only register one at a time.

Stars has a lot of options. They have a lot of different kinds of tournaments and sit’n’go’s. To my way of thinking this thins down the population, making it harder to get a game. Game selection is poor. It’s even worse for stud, stud-hi lo and Omaha. It’s also difficult to get into four hold’em games of the same limit, because of poor game selection, making it unattractive for multi-tablers.

You can’t see a called hand at Stars. Why even bother having a hand history?

Stars doesn’t have the option to take the next available seat.

Poker Stars doesn’t allow rakeback, nor do they have a liberal bonus policy. Bonuses are time consuming to clear, and much more difficult to clear for the lower-limit players.

The antes are too small in some games (especially small stakes), which makes the games tougher. (This is not necessarily bad, just an observation.)

Stars has instant cash outs into your Neteller account up to your initial deposit, but then it takes up to 72 hours to receive the balance of your withdrawal.


The Ugly

The Poker Stars software takes a long time to load and disconnects more frequently. I can load three Party skins very quickly while Poker Stars will still be trying to load in the background. As I write this Stars will not load, or loads very slowly. It has trouble making a connection. This could just be on my end, but when every other poker site loads quickly without any problems it leads me to believe the problem is with them.

If you turn off your avatars, and I imagine many people do just that, your hole cards cover up your stack size. This is especially annoying if you’re playing in a tournament where knowing how much money you have at all times can be critical. The cards also cover up the ugly blue blob, which blinks when it is your turn.

Poker Stars software is jerky. The cards aren’t dealt smoothly and crisply. If you turn off those features it’s still not a smoothly functioning interface. It’s difficult to multi-table. You have to click the call/raise/fold buttons multiple times before anything happens.

Since there is a dearth of side games, multi-tabling must be done across different games and limits. When I multi-table I like to play the same game and limit so as not to be needlessly confused. When I do multi-table I find it extremely annoying to do so because of the interface and software problems.

Stars has so-called “speed games.” These games give you less time to act on your hand, but it’s extremely difficult to play in these games, especially if you’re multi-tabling because the buttons don’t work the first time you click them, and also because of the jerky software problems.


Party Poker—The Good

First and foremost, I cannot for the life of me understand those who say Stars has the better interface. I’ve played at both sites, and I just don’t see it. I strongly disagree. One of the things I like most about Party is that everything is easier to see. The cards are bigger, and the bet sizes are easy to read. The color scheme is pleasing to the eye. The bet size is white in color against a complimentary background. When it’s your turn a little yellow arrow points at you and blinks, making it easier to tell when it’s your turn—this is nice when you’re multitabling with the sound off, which is how I prefer to play. To me, this is preferable to the big, blue, blinking blob, which is hard to see, and even harder to see when your hole cards are covering most of it. At Party the cards do not cover up your stack size whether the avatars are on or off.

There are lots of games especially for NL, sit’n’go’s, stud, stud-hi-lo and Omaha.

There are a lot of tournaments and satellites.

It’s easy to multi-table. Multi-tabling goes smoothly.

There are lots of side games, so it is relatively easy to get a seat at your preferred limit. It’s easy to get into games quickly at all limits and varieties, and there are always multiple games to choose from. They might not have a lot of stud, stud-hi-lo, or Omaha, but they have more than anybody else.

It’s easier and more efficient to see what’s going on in the lobby. Party’s lobby window is bigger, making it easier to navigate and to sort things out.

You can get rackback playing at some Party skins, and they have liberal and frequent bonuses, which are relatively easy to clear, especially for the low-limit players.

I prefer Party’s hand history format. You can see a called hand.

You can usually receive your total cash out into your Neteller account in about two hours.

The Bad

As far as the interface and software goes there isn’t that much that is bad about Party Poker, however, there is a lot that is downright ugly.

The Ugly

Party Poker has a severe problem with their waiting lists—especially in the stud games. I can put myself on the waiting list for ten games, get a seat in one, and then find myself taken off of the waiting lists for all of the other games I took the trouble to sign up for. I now have to re-sign up for the games I want, or I have to click on any game, and then click on how many minimum players I want at that game and do it that way—allowing me to take a seat in the next available game.

Another problem with their waiting lists is that if I want to play in a 6-max game and I click on the list for the next available game with a minimum of five players, more often than not it will take me to a full game—If I want to play 6-max only this is very annoying. I don’t want a full game. This is especially true in stud.

When you click on a game the waiting list will come up when it damn well pleases. I will often click on a waiting list just to see if I am still on it! It takes a while for it to let you know. It’s way too slow.

Then there is the “take your seat” glitch that everyone is familiar with. The box comes up saying do you want to take a seat, you click yes, and the game comes up but it says the seat is reserved. There is a way around this about 90% of the time. You simply click on take me off the list and the seat will come open. This needs to be fixed.

There is no way to turn off private game invitations. Other players use these to send you profanity-laced comments, or to ask to borrow money, etc.

Their tournament interface could use a lot of work. When I first get onto a tournament table or if I get switched to a different table in the middle of a tournament everything freezes up for five to ten seconds—or longer. It doesn’t always happen but it happens most of the time and it is a real pain, especially when you’ve got four tables going—you just have to sit there and wait for everything to “unfreeze.” [Apparently partially fixed.]

And finally, Party Poker’s customer support is sadly lacking. They’re quick to get back to you and answer your questions, but they can be quite arrogant and condescending at times. They’re “we are always right and you are always wrong” attitude is grating. If their customer base starts to slide, and I imagine it will eventually, this will be about the time they start to fix things. I’ve seen it happen dozens of times in all kinds of different business. Things are going great, and then when a little adversity hits, they start listening to their customer complaints—often it’s too late—customers have bolted.

Party Poker just refuses to listen, or they fail to understand or both. “We are number one for a reason, there is nothing wrong with our waiting lists, and the tournaments don’t freeze up. Clear your cache and everything should be just fine. And don’t forget—never give out your password, blah, blah, blah.”

Side-by-Side Comparison

Some have said that Stars is catching up with Party in terms of numbers, but I don’t believe this to be the case. If you look at the numbers closely, Stars has many micro limit games, which count toward their player base, I think, and they might also be counting their freeroll tournament players. If you subtract those numbers, this puts Party Poker well ahead. Party still has more tournament players—or it’s close. During peak hours Party is still well ahead of Stars, even when you count all of Stars player base, and Stars doesn’t even come close to Party in terms of side games.

I wish Stars would use the same card sizes as Party. I wish their bet sizes were easier to see and read, and it would be great if your cards didn’t cover up your information. When the big, blue blob is blinking your cards hide most of it. Stars should better utilize their space. I wish Stars had more side games, especially at stud, stud hi-lo and Omaha. I would like them to make their lobby window bigger and easier to read and navigate. It would be nice if the pot size was next to the pot.

Maybe it’s just me, but when I’m playing at Stars, it’s hard for me to see my cards, it’s hard to tell when it’s my turn, it’s hard to see how many people are in the pot, and it’s difficult to see how much people bet and how big the pot is. The jerky software is annoying, and I’m always trying to figure out what is going on, making it difficult to multi-table.

Things just don’t move very smoothly at Stars. I like to play four tables, and it’s very awkward to do so because of the herky-jerky motion of the software. Add this to the fact that you have to click the buttons multiple times before anything happens, and it makes for a very frustrating situation. These factors make it extremely difficult to multi-table at Stars, especially in the speed-type games. I just got through playing four $100 heads up sit’n’go’s, and I found it almost impossible to keep up—I did, but it wasn’t very easy, and not a lot of fun. I have the same problems if I’m playing four one-table sit’n’go’s or side games. I don’t have these problems at all when I’m multi-tabling at Party.

I wish Party would fix their waiting lists and stop denying that there is a problem. I wish they would fix their tournament software problems. I wish they would hire some Americans to supervise and handle some of the more serious customer service complaints.

Poker Stars doesn’t have anywhere near the selection of good side games that Party has. I believe some of the reasons for this is that they are spreading themselves too thin, and that they have too stringent bonus requirements, especially for low-limit players. They don’t offer rackback.

Party Poker needs to lower its rake in some of its games.

Party Poker also needs to “watch its back.” Paradise went down, and Party Poker is not immune. Poker Stars may or may not be the ones to catch them. A new site from left field with all of the bells and whistles in place could possibly be the one. Either way they both have problems that need to be addressed, which in my opinion aren’t that difficult to remedy.

I’m sure I’ve overlooked some things on both sites, and I know for a fact that many will disagree with some of my assessments. That’s fine—feedback is a positive.

I believe that if you applied the best features of both places you would really have a top-notch poker site. Who knows, maybe somebody is listening.

[1p0kerb0y]

If someone reads this could they please summerize it for me.

[Bigdaddydvo]

[ QUOTE ]
If someone reads this could they please summerize it for me.

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tl;dr

I imagine Timer speaking with the voice of Dana Carvey's cranky old man from the old SNLs.

[Gorgonian]

[ QUOTE ]
If someone reads this could they please summerize it for me.

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I don't expect either of these two things to occur.

[wmspringer]

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If someone reads this could they please summerize it for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stars software sucks
Party support sucks

[PokerCat69]

I like how stars has a running total of the pot including all current bets. Most sites just show the pot as what it stood the previous street.

I like the custom images you can upload. So easy to find yourself.
PS has much better software then party, but since the games are tougher at stars and no rakeback, why play there for cash games?

[2+2 wannabe]

[ QUOTE ]
If someone reads this could they please summerize it for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

party support is quick but sucks
stars support is quick and doesn't suck

party interface is good
stars interface is not so good

making changes to both sites' software would go a long way

[4thstreetpete]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If someone reads this could they please summerize it for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

party support is quick but sucks
stars support is quick and doesn't suck

party interface is good
stars interface is not so good

making changes to both sites' software would go a long way

[/ QUOTE ]

He wrote this on June 12

[Guthrie]

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If someone reads this could they please summerize it for me.

[/ QUOTE ]
He's a Party plant ragging on Stars.

Enjoy!