Single suited flop example

Pirc Defense · #1 06-07-2003, 03:26 PM

Been posting a lot lately, and getting great responses. Thanks in advance.

I have 4 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] and check in the BB after three limpers, which includes the SB.

The flop comes 5 4 T, all [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img]'s.

You're first to act. What would you do?

I bet my two pair, thinking I had the best hand against three opponents, and wanted to find out quickly in case I was wrong. I also didn't want to risk a free card to any drawers. I bet and got two callers. Oops. A Q [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] came on the turn and I check folded after a bet and raise behind me.

The latter part is clear, but do you lead out on this flop with bottom two pair?

travisand · #2 06-07-2003, 11:45 PM

I probably would lead out like you did. Since there was no raise preflop you cannot be sure anybody is going to bet so trying for a check-raise could be a little dangerous.

Ed Miller · #3 06-09-2003, 04:12 AM

...do you lead out on this flop with bottom two pair?

Yes. In fact, I need a lot less than two pair to lead out from the blind on a ragged, singled-suited flop in a shorthanded unraised pot. People often release quickly hands that they would call with on the same rainbow flop

Sirens · #4 06-09-2003, 07:07 AM

Yes. Lead out and three bet a raiser.
-Sirens

Pirc Defense · #5 06-09-2003, 04:27 PM

Thanks for the replies.

I like leading out then 3-betting a raiser, as a made flush probably wouldn't raise on the flop, unless they had a low made flush, say Jack or lower.

The Dude · #6 06-09-2003, 06:03 PM

...as a made flush probably wouldn't raise on the flop...

I would usually raise this board with a flopped flush. If bet into by an opponent that can read hands, my raise (especially if the other two opponents are behind me) has a good chance of causing him to put me on one pair or better, but not a flush - he would think I'm raising to knock out those holding one high [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img].

Also, with anything less than the K [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] I am very uncomfortable if another [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] falls. The money I would lose by not waiting for the turn to raise is much less than what it will cost me to let two more people draw to higher flush.

Against loose or overly aggressive opponents who will chase their high [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] to the river (I even play against some who would 3-bet here with the A [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] - which actually could be a good play if it could give you a free card on the turn - especially if the kicker paired on the board), my raise causes them to make a mistake by calling. Even though they are no longer getting proper odds, they still make the call. Thus I will make more money when they don't make their higher flush than I will lose when they hit it.

The Dude · #7 06-09-2003, 06:29 PM

BTW, I would definately bet out on this board. It is very likely you have the best hand, and you even have 4 outs to beat the flush.

I also like your check-fold on turn. With a bettor and raiser, you are certainly drawing to 4 outs, and you are not getting correct odds (at best you are getting 4:1, but are also possibly facing a 3-bet). You are a 10.5:1 dog to hit your full house, so even with your great implied odds you are still behind.