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#1
10-24-2005, 11:44 AM
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Isolation play gone sticky-ICKY, 500K guaranteed
After losing half my stack with a flopped set vs. flopped straight early, we're on level 2: 10/20, I have 790. Uber-donk who limps way too much limps UTG+2 (he has 2600). Folded to me I pick up K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the cutoff and attempt to isolate by raising to 85. Not quite- SB, BB and original limper call, prompting a 4-way pot of 340 and a flop of:
2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Checked to uber-donk who minbets. I raise to 200 to test the waters, and to leave myself enough to push on the turn and give something to think about should a blank come. BB and original bettor calls. Turn is a 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Check, check, I push my 505 into a 940 pot. BB uses his whole time bank and folds, uber-donk calls. Comments on my line? 
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#2
10-24-2005, 11:45 AM
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Re: Isolation play gone sticky-ICKY, 500K guaranteed
fold preflop
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#4
10-24-2005, 11:58 AM
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Re: Isolation play gone sticky-ICKY, 500K guaranteed
I'm just not sure how knowing he is an überdonk helps you here. Won't that just make it that much harder to know were you are on a flop like this with KJ? I love playing against donks with premium hands because they will pay you off with top pair weak kicker, but here? I don't know. Limp.
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#5
10-24-2005, 12:02 PM
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Re: Isolation play gone sticky-ICKY, 500K guaranteed
How can you possible fold this preflop? That is horrible. I overlimp here rather than building a bigger pot with this hand to see what develop postflop.
Post flop is really tricky here, largely because the pot has gotten too big for a hand you are willing to deal with imo. I don't think a raise preflop is terrible but the problem is like here when you get a couple callers dragged along now you have problems. Frankly not sure what to do on the turn other than push as it has played out. I can also see checking the turn although typing it it sounds awful weak. I just hate the pot getting this big with this hand.
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#7
10-24-2005, 01:52 PM
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Re: Isolation play gone sticky-ICKY, 500K guaranteed
[ QUOTE ]
After losing half my stack with a flopped set vs. flopped straight early, we're on level 2: 10/20, I have 790. Uber-donk who limps way too much limps UTG+2 (he has 2600). Folded to me I pick up K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the cutoff and attempt to isolate by raising to 85. Not quite- SB, BB and original limper call, prompting a 4-way pot of 340 and a flop of: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Checked to uber-donk who minbets. I raise to 200 to test the waters, and to leave myself enough to push on the turn and give something to think about should a blank come. BB and original bettor calls. Turn is a 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Check, check, I push my 505 into a 940 pot. BB uses his whole time bank and folds, uber-donk calls. Comments on my line? [/ QUOTE ] Darren, you can never call someone a uber-donk for limping too much at the 10/20 level. It happens all the time early, and it's normally good poker to splash around early in tournies. That being said, you can call him a donk for betting 20 into a T340 flop. Anyway, your line... raising to 80 PF is fine, although limping is definitely a good option here. I know you have position, but why play K-J against someone with a huge range who will obviously call your PF raise? Just limp and play a small pot. What does raising the flop accomplish? Would a passive player really just min-bet with air? No. It's obviously not a bluff, it's not a semi-bluff, it's a "I've got something" bet. He's passive and he's going to call you anyway, and the if either of the blinds has the Ace of hearts they'll come along if you raise to 200 as well knowing the original min-better will call. I think calling here is the best line. Wait for the turn to really get your chips in as you will have a better chance of taking it down there. The blank comes on the turn after just calling, you can actually bet enough to win the pot right there. You would have managed the pot size and can make it incorrect to draw to the flush. As you played it, there is no way you are getting anyone to lay their hand down. Anyway, I think you made a large pot with a marginal hand which could have been avoided by limping PF. Instead you had to hope that TP on a coordinated board was the best and you had to play it for all your chips. Brad
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#8
10-24-2005, 01:59 PM
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Re: Isolation play gone sticky-ICKY, 500K guaranteed
I'm not surprised that you got two overcallers and the first guy calling as well. At that level 85 chips doesn't make a bit of difference to most people's stack, except maybe yours by committing you to TP on a flush board. If you want to isolate, it's a push, but with that hand I'd rather see a flop first.
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#9
10-24-2005, 02:14 PM
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Re: Isolation play gone sticky-ICKY, 500K guaranteed
I appreciate your response- my comments below:
[ QUOTE ] you can never call someone a uber-donk for limping That being said, you can call him a donk for betting 20 into a T340 flop. [/ QUOTE ] I didn't say he was an uberdonk BECAUSE he did this, he had fish written all over him for other reasons, including minbets and minraises after 2-3 limpers. [ QUOTE ] Anyway, your line... raising to 80 PF is fine, although limping is definitely a good option here. I know you have position, but why play K-J against someone with a huge range who will obviously call your PF raise? Just limp and play a small pot. [/ QUOTE ] Limping would be standard for me lacking a read. With a read that I'm against a poor player I think it makes sense to try and isolate. [ QUOTE ] What does raising the flop accomplish? Would a passive player really just min-bet with air? No. [/ QUOTE ] Raising the flop lets me add money into a pot where I figure to have the best hand. I don't remember saying he was passive; at this point I really don't know what his bets mean, as he's been severely unpredictable- if I don't raise I'll have no idea where I stand, and there's a chance (albeit fairly small) I may take it down immediately. Additionally I don't want want guys with a couple overs getting the right odds to hit. [ QUOTE ] Anyway, I think you made a large pot with a marginal hand which could have been avoided by limping PF. Instead you had to hope that TP on a coordinated board was the best and you had to play it for all your chips. [/ QUOTE ] Granted, this is how it turned out. However, does anyone see the merit in trying to isolate preflop against someone who's playing a LOT of hands with something above average and position? I honestly didn't think this part of the hand would be controversial. Granted, it's not my standard line, but I'll throw it in there occasionally to mix it up. But, I'm hear to learn...
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#10
10-24-2005, 02:17 PM
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Re: Isolation play gone sticky-ICKY, 500K guaranteed
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not surprised that you got two overcallers and the first guy calling as well. At that level 85 chips doesn't make a bit of difference to most people's stack, except maybe yours by committing you to TP on a flush board. If you want to isolate, it's a push, but with that hand I'd rather see a flop first. [/ QUOTE ] push 790 chips for 50? I'd think that's a little excessive. I raised to 85, which is pretty standard at that level for me with one limper, but I can see a case for 100.
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