I suck at Blind defense, A8o

Dagger78 · #1 10-22-2005, 02:31 PM

Villian is 37/12/1.5 over 80 hands, and this is the first blind confrontation with this guy.
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
6 folds, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, Button folds.

Final Pot: 5.25 BB

I usually 3-bet the majority of the hands I use to defend the blinds, as I'm sometimes lost without being the aggressor. So I've been experimenting with flat calling in the BB and working from the flop. But I'm afraid of folding too often when I miss the flop. Is this the proper amount of aggression on a favorable flop?

Flame away

W. Deranged · #2 10-22-2005, 02:35 PM

I think you are much better served three-betting pre-flop than regularly flat-calling and leading a blank flop.

The problem is that villain is going to raise your flop donk-bet with a ton of hands, many of which a hand like A8 will be beating. Losing the iniative sucks here.

I think you should basically be approaching blind defense as a two-part beast:

1. You have a hand that is likely to be the best, has showdown value, and may even have your opponent dominated. In cases like this, go to war. Three-bet pre-flop and take the initiative. Put the burden on your opponent to make a pair.

2. You have a hand worth defending with, but without much showdown value. In these cases, the best approach is simply to try to flop a pair, and, failing that, to fold with a minimal investment.

The mistakes that are easiest to run into are: going to far with hands that likely need improvement and have no showdown value and not playing hands that have showdown value aggressively enough.

Dagger78 · #3 10-22-2005, 02:48 PM

I understand that most of the time my donkn bet here will get raised. I know I beat alot of those hands too. I'd planned on donking most turn cards also, letting him know he's going to have go to showdown. I'd planned on calling a raise and folding UI on the river.

As I said, most of the time I'd 3-bet here pre-flop and lead the flop. Any thoughts on which is the better line against a loose-semi-agressive?

Fryguy · #4 10-22-2005, 06:29 PM

I tend to just 3-bet pf and autodonk the flop. Especially with a board like this, paired and you've got 2 overs. Chances your opponent connected with this are slim.

thesharpie · #5 10-22-2005, 06:39 PM

I usually 3 bet this PF, sometimes I'll smoothcall looking to checkraise alot of flops. This board I don't mind just check/calling down, he should be betting the flop and turn everytime.

If you have doubts about whether he'll bet the turn then you've got to do something, I kind of like the flop donk, and usually calldown if he raises, I don't donk the turn, though.

Dagger78 · #6 10-22-2005, 06:53 PM

With the turn donk I'm hoping to fold a better ace that doesn't contain a spade. If not it's probably a value bet if he's calling with a wheelhouse holding.

thesharpie · #7 10-22-2005, 07:06 PM

He's not folding a better ace, and if he has a worse one he only has 3 outs, unless he has a "wheel house" but he's betting that anyway.

Edit: I guess most of the worse ones are "wheel house"s, but like I said he's betting those, and if he doesn't he'll probably call a river bet.

#8 10-22-2005, 07:10 PM

I think the decision on whether to 3 bet or flat call should be based on your opponent. 3 betting should be saved for people that are able to drop out on the flop. The people who have high vpips and pfr numbers seem to take these heads up battles personally and will play back at you quite often and get way out of line, which makes it harder to win the pot even if we have the best hand. One of the lines that often works, with little risk is to flat call preflop, check call on the flop, and dont the turn. Alot of times by the turn the villain has given up.

thesharpie · #9 10-22-2005, 07:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think the decision on whether to 3 bet or flat call should be based on your opponent. 3 betting should be saved for people that are able to drop out on the flop. The people who have high vpips and pfr numbers seem to take these heads up battles personally and will play back at you quite often and get way out of line, which makes it harder to win the pot even if we have the best hand. One of the lines that often works, with little risk is to flat call preflop, check call on the flop, and dont the turn. Alot of times by the turn the villain has given up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against the villain you described, depending on the board, I'd rather check/call all the way than donk the turn, you're just going to get knocked off of the best hand sometimes, they'll almost always fire again on the turn so you don't need to worry about charging them