Basics: Small pair, one limper

[twang]

I suppose this is basic, but I'm new to big tourneys.

Around 200 left of 698. Blinds are $300/600. My stack is $8620. MP is loose and passive.

I'm button with 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Folds. Middle player with $5210 limps. Folded to me.

Fold, call, raise or raise all-in?

Calling is almost always wrong here. Whether to raise or fold depends on read on limper (If he's limp/folded before, raise) and a little bit on how the blinds play (loose big stack = fold).

A raise really has to be a push here.

Editted to take out my idiot's comment that 4xBB is acceptable.

[illegit]

There's already 1500 out there which is a pretty significant increase to your stack if you pick it up, which argues for a push. With your stack size I'd rarely be limping (mostly open-raising, and re-stealing) but this is the one situation where it is tempting. Not only can you play it for set value but if it's checked to you on the flop you can often bet and pick it up regardless of the flop. If you had 1K-2K less in chips or so it's an easy push, I think you have just the right amount where I might try a limp here.

[Lloyd]

Beware of early limpers, especially those who limp with such a short stack. If he's been doing that frequently then fine. Otherwise, no way I'd push. I think calling and folding are both reasonable here. If the blinds were passive that would make me lean toward calling but almost exclusively for set value and the villain barely has the right stack for that. Pretty much the only way I'd limp is if I felt pretty strongly that the villain had a big hand, I knew he'd pay me off with his stack if I hit my set, and I was confident that the blinds wouldn't raise. Otherwise, fold and save the chips.

[mlagoo]

if i thought the blinds were likely to fold, and the limper was likely to fold the majority of the time, i would push. otherwise, i'd just fold.

[EverettKings]

I think a push gets looked up here more often than you'd like. A limp is bad because you could easily see a raise from the blinds or not get paid on the 7/8 of flops that you miss. I fold here.

The stack sizes in the blinds is also an important consideration. If they have you covered your overbet gets worse and worse. If they also have 5kish then its better, but not good enough for 33 here IMO.

Everett

[twang]

Blinds had 8k and 10k, respectively. They had also been pretty passive and I thought they would fold to a significant raise (unless they had a monster, of course).

FWIW, I pushed and was called by the limper (A5s) and he caught an ace on the river. I hope I'm not biased by the results, but in retrospect I think fold would have been the best play, mainly because A. my stack was big enough to let this opportunity go and B. that I might be called by the limper.

[Jah Red]

This looks like a pretty O.K. spot for a limp, so long as I have'nt folded to a raise after a limp at this table once already. I then fold to a significant raise behind me. Virtually no damage done to my stack and a good chance I get to see a flop, cheap, and hit my set. Also by doing so I may get the future opportunity to pull a limp reraise out of the bag with a big pair.

I don't think I'll push in this spot. I agree with Everett, your gonna get looked up more often than you want and be racing way to often for me with a situation that does not warrant it.

Rick

[binions]

[ QUOTE ]
Beware of early limpers, especially those who limp with such a short stack. If he's been doing that frequently then fine. Otherwise, no way I'd push. I think calling and folding are both reasonable here. If the blinds were passive that would make me lean toward calling but almost exclusively for set value and the villain barely has the right stack for that. Pretty much the only way I'd limp is if I felt pretty strongly that the villain had a big hand, I knew he'd pay me off with his stack if I hit my set, and I was confident that the blinds wouldn't raise. Otherwise, fold and save the chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

+1, especially beware early limper with 9xBB stack.

Small pairs play great in the early stages for a limp, but when you have (or are playing for) 10-15xBB or less, they are trouble hands best reserved for stealing blinds, not playing pots.

[ QUOTE ]
Blinds had 8k and 10k, respectively. They had also been pretty passive and I thought they would fold to a significant raise (unless they had a monster, of course).

FWIW, I pushed and was called by the limper (A5s) and he caught an ace on the river. I hope I'm not biased by the results, but in retrospect I think fold would have been the best play, mainly because A. my stack was big enough to let this opportunity go and B. that I might be called by the limper.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like he's certainly the kind of player who limps frequently. Given this and that the blinds were passive, I push this unless I've seen him make really crappy calls for all his chips.

Nh. Sucks that he BOTH called with A5s and hit.