good, ????, and baaaad hand.

[Guruman]

I don't post enough hands. Here are three from today.

all of these at interpoker 1/2£ sixmax
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good hand:
very loose passive table with lots of bad players who will occasionally bluff/fold a flop or turn. villain is the only other concious player at 28/4.

mp calls, button calls, sb calls, hero checks with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
flop 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

check, hero bets, mp calls, button raises, sb calls 2 cold, hero calls, mp calls.

I couldnt see why a decent player would raise this flop into so many fish unless he had either a monster or a flush draw. I decided that the turn would probably define his hand to a T.

turn is the 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

check, hero bets, mp folds, button calls, sb folds.

I decide to go with bet/fold on the turn here because I'm convinced villain was raising a draw and I dont want to give him a free card. This has been a very passive table, and plays like this work often even against multiple opponents. I've got no doubt that if I had checked the turn would have checked through.

River 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

hero checks, button bets, hero calls

bluff induction from whiffed draw 101. Also loses the least when behind and gets to showdown.

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questionable hand:

different table, same stakes. This table is just a loose as the other, but far more aggressive. I've been running ok and getting paid off with made hands.

hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
hero raises, mp calls, co calls, sb calls, bb calls

I'm not used to this many cold callers even at this table, so I'm having issues putting guys on ranges here.

flop T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

whole lotta nothin to me. I'm probably not best right now with this many people in.

sb check, bb check, hero checks, mp bets, co calls, sb calls, bb folds, hero calls hoping to spike an A or K.

turn 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

sb checks, hero checks, mp bets, co calls, sb folds, hero folds.

the pot's big enough to draw to six outs, but the question really is - how many outs is this hand worth right now?


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baaaaaad hand

worst hand I've played in weeks. Same table.

hero is sb with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

utg calls, mp calls, co folds, button folds, hero calls, bb checks.

value raise here?

flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

cool! top pr and a bd fl drw

hero checks, bb bets, utg calls, mp folds, hero raises, bb calls, utg raises (which confuses the hell outa me), hero calls, bb calls.

My thought here: people (myself included) often take the check/call, check/raise, bet line with monsters in order to induce a little action. I can't think of a time when someone took this line without having the goods by the turn (and often on the flop). When UTG saw that I liked my hand, he decided that he no longer has to wait for the expensive streets to generate action and wants to go to war now. Not so good for me.

turn is the 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

hero bets like an idiot, bb calls, utg raises, hero calls because he's retarded, bb calls.

If I think I'm behind here this card certainly didn't help me. I should have either check/folded or folded to the raise here.

river is the 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

hero checks,bb checks, utg bets, hero folds, bb folds, utg doesn't show.

[Aaron W.]

Good hand: Looks good.

Questionable hand: Looks good. If the table is very aggressive, I might peel one more time and show down against MP heads up and muck if CO calls. But reads come first, then AK UI happens.

Bad hand: I'm a little wary of putting UTG on a monster. Sometimes players do stupid things with stupid hands. For example, I can see a hand like K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] doing this with a big draw. This was at the aggressive table, right? If you trust your read, check-fold the turn. Otherwise, check-call the turn and river as long as you don't need to call more than one bet at a time.

First hand: I check-call the flop and donk a blank turn if you decide to continue with the hand. I think your equity is going to change greatly from the flop to the turn, and there's also the possibility that you're drawing nearly dead against a bigger T. Also, what range of draws/made hands is the button betting that you still beat on the turn? I'd like to hear it if my reasoning is wrong here, though.

Second hand: Given the fairly uncoordinated nature of the flop, I think it's close, leaning towards a fold with the presence of the CO. Unless you can place the MP raiser on a deuce, your overcards will be good a lot of the time if you hit. On the other hand, there's the possibility that you're reverse-dominated. The pot is 9BB, and you're closing the action on the turn.

Third hand: Limping here is fine. You're OOP with a marginal hand. I like betting out on the flop here more, unless the check-raise is for value, also given the described passive nature of the table. The turn is read dependent, I've seen a lot of people call-reraise with a strong draw with someone (the BB in this case) trapped. The turn is spew given your read, but you already know that.

[Guruman]

[ QUOTE ]
First hand: I check-call the flop and donk a blank turn if you decide to continue with the hand. I think your equity is going to change greatly from the flop to the turn, and there's also the possibility that you're drawing nearly dead against a bigger T. Also, what range of draws/made hands is the button betting that you still beat on the turn? I'd like to hear it if my reasoning is wrong here, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

if button's on a flush draw and raising for a free card then I'm way ahead on the flop here. Also, button didn't bet the turn, I did.

[ QUOTE ]
Second hand: Given the fairly uncoordinated nature of the flop, I think it's close, leaning towards a fold with the presence of the CO. Unless you can place the MP raiser on a deuce, your overcards will be good a lot of the time if you hit. On the other hand, there's the possibility that you're reverse-dominated. The pot is 9BB, and you're closing the action on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my biggest question here. There are 7 big bets in by the turn. By the time the turn is bet and called I'm getting 9-1. The question is, how many outs is my hand worth? It cant be worth the full six because of the risk of reverse domination. I need it to be worth between 4 and 5 outs to call. Is it worth that much? I couldnt do the math on the fly, so I folded and watched helplessly as an ace fell on the river.

[lautzutao]

hand 1 I don't like at all. As soon as that raise came in on that board I would have looked for a fold. Straight draws, flushdraws, and too many callers. Dump it.

Hand 2: I guess hand 2 is alright. I probably woulda called the turn and folded the river unimproved.

Hand 3: I would have bet/fold the turn. I see people raising FD's like UTG did in this hand. Might as well bet into him to find out what he's got. When he raises, it smells like a set or top 2 pair. So fold since you don't have outs to call it.

[lautzutao]

I apologize, but if you think you're way ahead here on the flop you're seeing things. A FD with an overcard has more equity than you in this pot given the other players in the pot.

If you WERE going to continue with this hand, the only way to win it is to go for a C/R. Close to 2/3 of the deck beat us!(any club, any J, Q, K, A, card that completes a straight). And that's only if we're not behind already.

[Guruman]

hmm, looks like you're right there Lao. If my read is a flushdraw with an overcard (which is was) then villain definately has an equity edge.

I still think bet/call is best here though. First off, a check/raise will not win the hand outright against a flush draw, and betting gives him the option to make a mistake and fold.

when he raises, even if he has an equity edge, he still hasn't hit his hand, so I can't let go. The river check is to induce a bluff.

[lautzutao]

We're not looking to drive out a FD(it is impossible to drive out a FD in limit HE), we're looking to clear out overcards by C/R.

But I'm only laying out a C/R as a viable way to play a bad kicker TP hand. I wouldn't even think of playing this because of the # of overcards that can come. If that T were a Q or a K, then we could argue proper lines.

Just fold this turd[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Nfinity]

The first hand was expertly played IMO.

The reason we don't want to go for a Check raise on the flop is because we drive out the hands that we want to call us, and isolate ourselves with the hands that are correct to draw. Instead of having 2 or 3 players each making mistakes and upping our winrate, we have 1 or 2 that are correct to call.

To put it one way your are foregoing the ability to entice your opponents to make little mistakes, which they will do at length. Instead your are trying to force them to make BIG mistakes that they will do less frequently.

or to put it another way...

You are taking a MARGINAL +EV situation and trading EV for Equity. The flush draw, however doesn't need any more EV, and they only need Equity to Raise the pot, not call down.

well played Guruman

[lautzutao]

Disregard everything I said if anyone's reading, it's bad advice [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]